ABC Report on Toyota Raises Questions

Last night, “ABC Evening News” aired a report that showed a Southern Illinois University assistant professor causing unintended acceleration in a Toyota Avalon. Rather than focusing on sticky accelerator pedals or floormats — the impetus for Toyota’s two major recalls — professor David Gilbert used an electrical short to create an error in the electronic throttle, leading to uncontrollable acceleration that also was not noted as an error by the onboard computer.

It’s a vivid report that raises more questions. Most glaring to us, the report doesn’t say exactly what type of electrical short is sent through the car. It only says it is the type of short caused by moisture or corrosion. The video also shows the car being brought to a controlled stop using brakes and shifting the transmission into Neutral. The big revelation is that the diagnostic tools never record an error at all. Toyota continues to deny — even this morning — that there is any problem with its electronic throttle.

Toyota issued a response to the ABC News report, saying Gilbert contacted them last week with his findings regarding his test using a Tundra truck, not the Avalon he used in the ABC test. Toyota replicated his testing methods with the Tundra and said it could not re-create the unintended acceleration. The company says it was surprised to see the Avalon in the report and would be willing to join Gilbert and ABC News for another test with its engineers present.

Southern Illinois University has a two-year automotive engineering program that trains students for jobs as “manufacturers' technical and customer assistance specialists, field service engineers, corporate and public school automotive instructors, technical writers, program developers, fleet service managers, dealership service and parts managers, and field executives.” According to the school’s website, the Automotive Technology faculty meets with an advisory board made up of representatives from many automakers, including Toyota.

A letter from the members of the congressional panel holding hearings today to Toyota’s president of U.S. sales Jim Lentz reprimanded the company relying on a third-party test because that firm tested only seven models in its first stage of testing, and only one was a recalled model. Gilbert will be testifying today before a congressional panel, showing the results of his tests of at least two models.

Comments

Basically,Toyota has no idea how its own cars work.Seems to me,they probably farmed out all electronic engineering to someone else (Hitachi? NipponDenso?) and they dont want to admit they arent technologically advanced enough to program their own stuff.One wonders why they have only one black box reader in the whole USA.They claim its a prototype and its proprietory information.Its probably because it would reveal the true maker of the software...

Microsoft?

I am shocked that the American Public keeps buying cars from a Company who has continued to deceive the public. It is a known fact that Ford cars are superior in quality - with fail safe technology. And yet due to self designed Japanese beaucrartic red tape, we can't sell American cars there. Wake up America. They are taking you for a ride.

Ford does not have a brake override system if that is what you're referring to.

I can't wait to see how the auto media cleans this one up. Lately all the blogs and auto site have been posting stuff that has been very Toyota friendly. I'm reading all kinds of stuff that suggests this is overblown and that the consumers or government is really at fault here. That video from ABC blows holes in Toyota's claims that electronic interference isn't possible. Can't wait to see what CR has to say about this.

Hey Rockin, maybe you should read this headline from CNN October 2009, "Ford recall hits 4.5 million vehicles." "Ford issues largest single recall ever due to faulty cruise control switch that could lead to fire." The article goes on to say, "Faulty switch can leak hydraulic fluid, overheat, smoke, and then burn causing fire even when the ignition is turned off, parked and unattended, the NHTSA said. So basically it could burn your house down too if you park it in a garage. Sleep tight.

I don't drive a Toyota - never have.

Let's all hold our horses. This is how witch hunts work. I'm not say this IS a witch hunt but you don't necessarily know you're in the middle of one when it's happening. Whenever there's a frenzy that seems so one-sided everyone needs to simma down.

And as for computers in cars or anything else, the very nature of computer programming lends itself to probabilty and acceptable percentages of failure and such. It's just a reality as there is no way to test 100% of all possible scenarios to see how the software will respond. So they test from the most likely to the "least-most-likely" out of practicality. But remember that relying on probability didn't start with computers. The totally "physical" steering in a 1970 Ford, your tires, your lamp, your old rotary phone, your pots & pans and even the elastic in your socks all have a probability of failure - and there's usually a bean counter who knows what that prrobability is.

No matter how many "failsafes" are put in place in any system, the people who know, ALWAYS know there's still a chance of its "catastrophic" failure.

-Drive-by-wire's not likely going away.
-Toyota's not the only company that committed this sin.
-Don't be surprised if more companies eventually get caught in this net.
-Don't assume because that because there are these seemingly difinitive stories on the news that they are the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help them ratings.

When I see this type of coverage of anything - good or bad - I ask how much of it is really what it seems.

I like that last line WestPhilly. The reality is that most of us are way more likely to cause an accident because of our own defects. Not the cars defects.

Listen carefully to the testimony from Rhonda Smith of Tennessee. She claims her Lexus “accelerated out of control” to over 100 miles per hour for six miles. Yet she is able to fish her cell phone out of her purse to call her husband so she “could hear his voice one last time.” Her car is out of control and she’s talking on a cell phone? If this is true, she was endangering not only her own life, but also the lives of others on that road. If she should have been killed in an auto accident, not to mention others who may have shared the same road with her, it would most likely have been due to her own negligence and careless regard for human lives.

I’m not defending Toyota, but I don’t believe her tears or her far-fetched story. She should have lost her life that day. We don’t need careless, heartless drivers on the road.

Lexus is Bluetooth enabled, Sherlock. Two button presses on the wheel and you can call your most recently dialed number.

@George: How do you know if she used her Bluetooth to call her husband for the one last time?

I think Phoenix Driver and WestPhilly made a good point. There are always some inconsistencies to stories on the news. We cannot believe everything we read or see on T.V. Take it with a grain of salt and know that this could happen to ANY cars on the road. I think Toyota screwed up but that ABC News report was not specific enough to really see if Toyota's electronics are the issue. This "short" could potentially set off similar results on different cars made by other companies. The point is with everything so computerized nowadays it's difficult to really say what can cause it to fail.

I think it's also worth noting that according to the testimony today, Mr. Gilbert and Mr. Kane are being financially compensated for their 'defect' findings by the trial lawyers who are planning lawsuits on behalf of drivers involved in reported acceleration incidents. Not saying that there isn't a problem, but with all the money changing hands we could be misled by such demonstrations.

Hey Rockin, you either have parent controls on your Goggle settings or your largely miss informed. My Ford Cruise Control Recall was fixed and my truck still burned to the ground.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/09/ford_fires_continue.html

@Johnny,

We know she used Bluetooth because if you TRULY listened carefully to her testimony, she SAID she used it.

One other thing about Mrs. Smith's testimony: it'd finally explain how a trained state trooper could fail to stop a vehicle by putting it in Neutral. If what Smith says is true, it now makes perfect sense why Saylor couldn't stop that other ES.

Forensic investigation can prove or disprove Gilbert's theory. All they have to do is check some wrecked cars to see if the two accelerator sensors were shorted together as in Gilbert's set up test. Then they can check the condition of the brakes, which can indicate where the driver's foot might have been during the incident. The problem with the Prius brakes is really just a feeling that you're losing braking for a second and is an electronics tweak. Ford had to do the same recall on the Fusion hybrid cause they use a lot of Toyotas sofware.

Really people, this has goverment conspiracy all over it, what else can the idiots in the whitehouse do they just keep spending and telling us it will all get better and remember they could not survive the real world so they went in to politics. Toyota is the first scapegoat in Goverment Motors plans, whos next?

Geez forgot to mention Mr Gilbert, small college professer looking for fame, get real. If you start rewiring just about anything that moves or uses fuel I think you could make it blow up if you wanted too, maybe you should take the advice from Toyota and meet with their engineers, you might learn something useful to teach your students!!!

I'd just like to point out that Southern Illinois University's Automotive Technology program is actually a four year, Baccalaureate program, and does not provide a two year associates degree. I'm not sure where the author of this blog received their information, but they should recheck their sources.

Concerning Dr. Gilbert's intentions, I would bet my life that he was fully committed to identifying a fault in Toyota's electronic throttle controls for the pure purpose of both saving lives and continued time and testing on the behalf of Toyota. As a graduate of SIUC's Automotive Technology program I have spent years with Dr. Gilbert and, through my experience, he has proven time and time again to be one of the most experienced and knowledgeable professionals in the automotive field. With over 30 years experience as a technician and collegiate professor, his work alone has done far more than proven his credibility.

As was mentioned previously, take a couple steps back and do some research for yourself before you cry 'witch.'

Like we can really trust ABC. This is another witch hunt, just like with Audi in the 80's.

Just remember that a TV report that SHOWS (intentionally caused) unintentional acceleration is much more exciting than one that doesn't. I suspect ABC pushed for some kind of demonstration that they could show on TV and promote. TV News is still TV and therefore ratings-driven.

If Toyota really wanted to solve the potential software fault tree problem, they would put the software and documentation on the net. Some geek out there would find a problem if it exists.. What about EMI scrambling, my old Corvette would set off certain car alarms in a garage where I parked when I drove by.

@ Sniper - Sometimes loud exaust noise/vibration can set of car alarms. I imagine that in a parking garage the effect is multiplied. My friends old Plymouth Roadrunner (with headers only, no pipes no mufflers) set off alarms half a block away without the echo of a garage. It took him a while to figure out it was his fault, but once he realized it, frequently visiting busy parking lots for no other reason became very common.

michael syd

What is your engineering background since you feel compelled to criticize Professor Gilbert? At least he can back up his claims up with actions/facts. The government conspiracy claim you make you do not prove and is more the stuff out of Tea Bag Loony Land.

My first thought would be to put the transmission in neutral. Why aren't people doing this? Is it physically impossbile with modern designs? And I still think modern brakes are stronger than modern engines. Even if they aren't, full braking should not allow a car to go 100 mph.

Years ago the Audi 5000 was accused of sudden vehicle acceleration and as I recall it was finally agreed that the pedal spacing was deceptive to some drivers and caused them to depress the gas pedal by mistake and not realizing it. And some depressed it very hard thinking they were on the brake pedal.

Any ideas why cars can't be shifted to neutral at speed or high rpm's?

Witch hunt ?

Toyota has been selling millions of cars in the US BUT ALSO MORE millions of cars OUTSIDE of the US.

Funny that ALL the self-accelerating cars were by "chance" sold only in the US and that absolutely NO similar event has been reported in any of the other 150 or so countries were Toyotas are sold.
Funny isn't it ?

Nothing to see, of course, with the fact that the US are the country in the world with the largest percentage of lawyers per capita...

Nobody can't find any problems of electric devices of Toyota yet, even if those professors and specialists are trying to find them around clock.
plus GMs and Fords have sudden acceralation just like Toyota.
I think it's like 'weapon of mass distruction' kind of story made up by Government motors. There will be nothing at the end.

What car do you ride if you have to go across Sahara? I would definitely choose Toyota landcruiser.

I have a 2010 Tundra and have experianced Unattended Acceleration 4 times, 3 after the recall. 3 weeks ago the factory assured me taht all was well and there was no problem. The truck is now back at toyota for unattended acceleration. After dealing with them I can only say they are in denial and do not care about antones life just thier bottom line.