Movers and Losers: August 2009

Taurussho The Cash for Clunkers program was in full effect in August, and I thought we’d see cars bought through the program fly up the Movers chart and big SUVs fall away. In some ways, the cars on the top 10 were Clunker favorites, but Ford’s new Taurus and its Flex crossover made the list, too. Ford had four models on the list and Toyota has five.

The Toyota Prius stays on the Movers list for the third month in a row; it’s the only car that can make that claim.

It was a bit difficult coming up with losers because so many models have turned over to the 2010 model year, which disqualifies their 2009 counterparts from making the list. Chrysler and Volkswagen take it on the chin because many of their models have not turned over, and it seems they aren’t selling quickly either. If you’re a performance fan, the Audi TTS is selling very slowly. Maybe there’s a deal to be had at your local Audi dealer.

Overall, the average number of days it took to sell a new 2009 or 2010 car declined in August, as you’d expect with the Clunkers incentive. It dialed back from 83 days in July to 82 days in August, the first decline of the year. The full lists are below.

August 2009 Movers

1.    2010 Scion xD: 3 days
2.    2010 Toyota Tacoma: 3 days
3.    2010 VW Jetta sedan: 3 days
4.    2010 Ford Escape: 5 days
5.    2010 Lexus HS 250h: 5 days
6.    2010 Ford Focus: 6 days
7.    2010 Scion xB: 6 days
8.    2010 Toyota Prius: 6 days
9.    2010 Ford Taurus: 7 days
10.   2010 Ford Flex: 8 days

August 2009 Losers

1.    2009 VW Rabbit two-door: 180 days
2.    2009 Dodge Caliber: 172 days
3.    2009 Chrysler Sebring: 166 days
4.    2009 Chrysler PT Cruiser: 165 days
5.    2009 Dodge Avenger: 162 days
6.    2009 Audi TTS: 162 days
7.    2009 Jeep Compass: 161 days
8.    2009 Hummer H3/H3T: 160 days
9.    2009 Dodge Charger: 159 days
10.  2009 VW GTI two-door: 157 days

About the Lists

The Movers and Losers lists report the average number of days it takes to sell models from the day they arrive on the lot until the final paperwork is signed by a buyer. This is not a days of inventory list like you may find on other sites. We’re now focusing on only the 2009 and 2010 model years.

For Movers, we only list vehicles that pass a certain threshold of sales in order to weed out limited editions, models that are being phased out or other factors that might skew the numbers or otherwise inaccurately portray popularity. For the Top 10 Losers, we lower that threshold greatly because low sales bolster the Loser claim, though they could also indicate other factors, like a model being phased out.

By David Thomas | September 16, 2009 | Comments (48)

Comments 

Dave Wuss

Congrats to Ford for turning themselves around the honest way as it proves what quality leadership can do. They have a strong pipeline and choose to put their money into products rather than marketing hype. It's no surprise to see Ford and Toyota dominate the winners list again.

paul

I always get a little confused with this listing.
For instance, this past month I was looking to trade my 1 year old MKS in for the new EcoBoost engine MKS or Taurus.
The one thing I noticed was there were NONE of either one.
A few dealers had one or two Tarsus, but no MKS.
So how does this list take availability into account?
The time a car spends on the lot depends on how many there are for buyers to choose from.
If there is only 1, then it’s gonna move.
Please explain.

Ziggy

Strange to see the xB with it's terrible interior and poor sales make the list - just kidding.

Paul,
That's exactly right. But the dealer ordered them and sold them. They just didn't stay on the lot very long. They might have been reserved, ordered etc, but all count towards that low number. If a new Taurus comes in on Monday and was already reserved and they buyer picks it up on Tuesday that's a 1 day turnaround theoretically.

Most of the top of the list vehicles were obviously from cash for clunkers sales and the year turnover, but the Taurus and Flex obviously weren't.

Al G.

I also say Kudos to Ford. I also noted the Taurus being on the list. Good to see people are not passing on this car. Everything I've seen and heard indicates this is a good car. Persaonlly I's like the Fusion just beacuse it is smaller but if I were in the market for a full-size car I'd definately choose the Taurus over the Avalon. That's something I would not have said 5 years ago.

Original sheth

Dave Wuss:

Ford doesn't advertise? news to me. all their ads say "drive one" and talk about how their quality is equal to Toyota and Honda. And GM still outsells them. You are ridiculous.

Original sheth

"Strange to see the xB with it's terrible interior and poor sales make the list - just kidding."

scion is a failure. Toyota is currently figuring out what to do with the brand next. Sales of all their models has trailed off over the years. They sell a total of 6k -7k units a month between the 3 cars.

Ziggy

DW -
You do see a lot of ads for the Focus and Fusion but hardly any for the Taurus and Flex, yet those two made the list. Ford has a decent line up and new Focus, Fiesta and future C-Max and Eplorer will really round it out. I also think the lack of government bail out also helps with public perception.

Original sheth

I like Ford but there are plenty of SHO ads on TV. I see them almost daily. They have one about the BLIS mirrors and one about the engine. They are definitely advertising the car. I dont think DW actually verifies anything he says, he is all about GM bashing and nothing more. Dont expect much else.

Belly

Idiot quote of the day:

"scion is a failure."

Belly

I don't believe anyone said Ford doesn't advertise. Only an incompetent would think that... oh sorry Shet.

Ziggy

That's funny DW I didn't read any GM bashing in your comment. I guess the top ten list must speak for itself.

GR

You must spend a lot of time sitting in front of the boob tube Sheth.

Ford was waiting until the kickoff of the NFL season to start its Taurus marketing blitz which is in full effect now. Smart move to make sure there was inventory before spending the dough unlike some companies.

YOING

I agree, Dave was "GM bashing"???

1487/Sheth, as a GM salesman, does the government give bonuses for every piece of propoganda you spew on message boards?

Must be good for business since nobody wants your vehicles. Gots ta do something with your time, right?

Belly

I couldn't agree more YOING.

JM

I was surprised to the the Jetta on the list, since it is relatively old compared to the other models. Then again, the Focus and Escape are the oldest models of all of them.

I was also surprised to see the HS 250h on the list. I havent seen any on the road, but saw a whole mess of them on a carrier truck a while back. They dont look too bad from what I saw, but they do look very Carola-like.

sheth

YOING/Belly/DW/etc.

You all sound like children with your silly insults. Sticks and stones..... Instead of actually responding like adults or rebutting what I say (which you cant) you hurl insults. I don't work for GM and never have. I don't even work in the field.

1. Only a fool would say "no one" wants GM vehicles when they outsell the brands that said fool claims are in the most demand. Even if GM were to be #2 in the US market they will still sell far more vehicles than Nissan, Hyundai, Chrsyler. Lay off the hyperbole

2. DW said Ford didn't rely on marketing gimmicks to sell cars, just good product. I pointed out that Ford has had numerous "marketing gimmicks" designed to prove their vehicles are as good as Toyota and Honda vehicles. GM and Ford are doing the EXACT same thing using different methods. Ford had an entire series of ads in which they allowed non Ford owners to drive Ford vehicles and then talk about them in commercials. If GM did that the peanut gallery would be calling that a gimmick.

3. Unlike my fan club I don't hate any automakers. I dislike propaganda and double standards which are embraced by many Americans and our Toyota centric auto media. I never said I have a problem with Toyota or Honda. I'm sorry if my refusal to bow at the altar bothers you all. Group think isn't for me- it's obviously very much for you though. I've always had my own mind. Judging my the flawed logic and lack of savvy displayed by the critics here I think I will keep making up my own mind. following the crowd is dangerous as evidenced by some of the displays of ignorance on this site.

4. I pay attention to car commercials more than any other. Since I have a job I really don't watch that many hours of TV. The fact that I know there are Taurus ads on TV doesn't mean I watch a lot- it means I pay attention.

5. Everything DW writes is somehow related to his dislike of GM and love of all brands foreign. If you bothered to read his post he praised Ford and said they are doing great because they didnt take government money and are independent, etc. Most analysts believe GM was able to catch up or surpass Ford's progress by going bankrupt. Both companies need overall sales to improve if they want to make money. Both companies have strong product. GM still outsells Ford by a significant margin so all this talk of Ford overtaking GM simply because they didn't take loans from Uncle Sam is just that- talk. Show me the numbers.

sheth

JM:

Movers and losers means very little. If a car just came out supply is limited and thus days to sell is minimal. Most of the cars on that list are there simply because they are not in adequate supply. It has nothing to do with sales figures or overall success of a model. The 2010 xD, Taurus, Flex and HS250 did not sell in large volumes last month. They are on the list because they just hit dealers lots and sold fast. I believe Ford sold less than 2500 Taurus' last month. Hardly a huge figure.

Belly

You all sound like children with your silly insults. Sticks and stones..... Instead of actually responding like adults or rebutting what I say (which you cant) you hurl insults. I don't work for GM and never have. I don't even work in the field.
-Seriously, we have heard it before. You have a serious problem with the insults because you are a loser with a oversized ego who denies the truth. Funny, it fits the title of this post...

1. Only a fool would say "no one" wants GM vehicles when they outsell the brands that said fool claims are in the most demand. Even if GM were to be #2 in the US market they will still sell far more vehicles than Nissan, Hyundai, Chrsyler. Lay off the hyperbole
-The times they are a changing. However there will always be the die-hards who refuse to switch to a company that produces a good product. Many of whom used to or currently work for such a poor company, sound familiar?

2. DW said Ford didn't rely on marketing gimmicks to sell cars, just good product. I pointed out that Ford has had numerous "marketing gimmicks" designed to prove their vehicles are as good as Toyota and Honda vehicles. GM and Ford are doing the EXACT same thing using different methods. Ford had an entire series of ads in which they allowed non Ford owners to drive Ford vehicles and then talk about them in commercials. If GM did that the peanut gallery would be calling that a gimmick.
-GM and Ford are not doing the same thing. Ford has been producing higher quality vehicles for sometime and has better products. Remember they didn't declare bankruptcy. If GM owners (or employees...) went on TV (or the internet...) saying their vehicles are better, that would be a gimmick.

3. Unlike my fan club I don't hate any automakers. I dislike propaganda and double standards which are embraced by many Americans and our Toyota centric auto media. I never said I have a problem with Toyota or Honda. I'm sorry if my refusal to bow at the altar bothers you all. Group think isn't for me- it's obviously very much for you though. I've always had my own mind. Judging my the flawed logic and lack of savvy displayed by the critics here I think I will keep making up my own mind. following the crowd is dangerous as evidenced by some of the displays of ignorance on this site.
-You're a complete joke. You have not used logic. And group think? Be sure not to get too far out of your box, GM wouldn't like you to see how much better other companies are.

4. I pay attention to car commercials more than any other. Since I have a job I really don't watch that many hours of TV. The fact that I know there are Taurus ads on TV doesn't mean I watch a lot- it means I pay attention.
-Sure!

5. Everything DW writes is somehow related to his dislike of GM and love of all brands foreign. If you bothered to read his post he praised Ford and said they are doing great because they didnt take government money and are independent, etc. Most analysts believe GM was able to catch up or surpass Ford's progress by going bankrupt. Both companies need overall sales to improve if they want to make money. Both companies have strong product. GM still outsells Ford by a significant margin so all this talk of Ford overtaking GM simply because they didn't take loans from Uncle Sam is just that- talk. Show me the numbers.
-Your first sentence contradicts the second. Where's the link to support GM's "progress"? I like how DW countered you previously by saying what do straight numbers mean if there isn't profitability. You had no response then, or now. There is one number that really matters, 11.

Oh snap! Gonna break out the Jiffy Pop!

Dave Wuss

Ah another shethism. The poor schmuck doesn't konw the difference between marketing hype and advertising. Get back in your hole where you belong.

Original sheth

dave/belly (you are interchangeable):

Nothing you ever say has anything to do with cars or the industry. This is a CAR site and yet 90% of your posts are laced with insults directed at me. If you know so much about cars (which you don't) why can't you ever try and win people over with your command of the issues? What is your purpose here other than to insult me? Its overcompensation for your lack of knowledge. Let the insults continue because I know you have nothing intelligent to ad. Like a grade school bully who takes lunches from smart kids because he can't read you are trying to disguise your ignorance. I'm not fooled but carry on if you wish.

DW:

"marketing hype" is in the eyes of the beholder. Many people felt that the Ford ads featuring real owners was "marketing hype". It's really subjective and thus its pointless to make statements in absolution about what constitutes "marketing hype" and what represents "advertising". Since you hate GM every ad they air is "markering hype". Some people hate Ford and would say the same thing about all their ads that tout their Japanese like quality.

"-Your first sentence contradicts the second. Where's the link to support GM's "progress"? I like how DW countered you previously by saying what do straight numbers mean if there isn't profitability. You had no response then, or now. There is one number that really matters, 11. "

More idiot talk. everything cannot be summed up in ONE link. ford expects to be profitable by 2011 assuming a modest recovery in sales over the next two years. GM has not given a concrete date since coming out of Chatper 11 but has indicated it could be VERY soon. Meanwhile Toyota has already said it will post a multi billion dollar loss next March. How ridiculous is it to keep making this "lets talk about profitability" stuff when the automaker you love the most is losing billions as we speak? I would like to know what automakers you and DW are referring to when you keep saying "profits, not sales count". Toyota gained sales and lost money so I guess you are not talking about them. Nissan and Ford are also losing money. Who are you talking about? In this economy every major automaker is losing money except Hyundai, Honda and the European companies.

Original sheth

"-GM and Ford are not doing the same thing. Ford has been producing higher quality vehicles for sometime and has better products. Remember they didn't declare bankruptcy. "

Let me try and break this down on an elementary school level. Try and follow me here. There is a difference between comparing GM and Ford's balance sheets and their PRODUCTS. I know you don't read much but automotive writers largely agreed that GM's products were much more comparable to the imports than Ford's until this year when the 2010 Fusion came out. GM is largely viewed as having reformed its product development processes earlier than Ford and GM focused on creating great interiors before Ford. While Ford has better affordable hybrids than GM there is little doubt that GM is at least as good (if not better) than Ford in other segments including luxury sedans, luxury crossovers, small SUVs, midsize crossovers, etc. At this point there is relative parity in terms of products and READING a few reviews would reveal that. Both companies have strong lineups and both have a lot of product coming in the next year or two.

They are doing the EXACT same thing from a product standpoint. Improving fuel efficiency, improving interior design, leveraging global resources to save money and improve what is offered in the US, investing in small cars and technologies, etc. Instead of hurling insults why dont you offers some evidence that the two companies are on very different tracks. BTW, I don't expect an intelligible response. Just more middle school like taunts. Proceed.....

Belly

Quote from Shet:

"DW:

thanks for the link showing those figures.... Not that we have any proof those numbers are legit. Then again, you aren't known for backing up anything so...."
-Nice links you post above. I also liked your response to the previous post where we were discussing residual values. Good links you had there.

"everything cannot be summed up in ONE link"
-How about just trying to provide one, just one...

idiOt Shet once you actually post some information that is recognized as actual "information" and not your anecdotal "facts" then maybe you'll get better responses. But since you love insults, there you go fruitcake.

YOING

"Only a fool would say "no one" wants GM vehicles when they outsell the brands that said fool claims are in the most demand."

"Even if GM were to be #2 in the US market they will still sell far more vehicles than Nissan, Hyundai, Chrsyler."

"GM still outsells Ford by a significant margin so all this talk of Ford overtaking GM simply because they didn't take loans from Uncle Sam is just that- talk."

"Ford doesn't advertise? news to me. all their ads say "drive one" and talk about how their quality is equal to Toyota and Honda. And GM still outsells them."

"While Ford has better affordable hybrids than GM there is little doubt that GM is at least as good (if not better) than Ford in other segments including luxury sedans, luxury crossovers, small SUVs, midsize crossovers, etc."

For somebody who claims to NOT be a GM employee/salesperson, you sure do talk-the-talk like one. You even come across with the same arrogance like one. btw, that's not an insult, that's an observation.

"I never said I have a problem with Toyota or Honda. I'm sorry if my refusal to bow at the altar bothers you all."

No, you have an alter for GM instead. Or they sign your paycheck.

"Ford had an entire series of ads in which they allowed non Ford owners to drive Ford vehicles and then talk about them in commercials. If GM did that the peanut gallery would be calling that a gimmick."

They did at Saturn with the Aura. They're doing it again too, it's called "May the Best car win" and its nothing but gimmick.

"Instead of hurling insults"

Yeah right, remember this next time you call other posters "fools" or "Ignorant" or claim they have "lack of knowledge" because they're opinions aren't in line with yours.

Ziggy

"why can't you ever try and win people over with your command of the issues?"

Shet - if this is your goal then it's not working!

H

So Belly, how many different pseudonyms are you going to use?

YOING, Dave Wuss, Belly...obviously all one in the same individual whose only purpose is to taunt and incite worthless arguments. In other words, a troll.

Now why don't you go away and leave this site so the rest of us true automotive enthusiasts can enjoy it without your drivel.

Belly

H, whine, whine, whine, huh? No, no, if I left who would smack you all around with your nonsensical GM rants.

Belly

And H, you stupid fool, this is not an enthusiast site! Read:

"This blog is not a fan or enthusiast forum..."

Original sheth

Belly:

You are asking for a link but I don't even know the question. To anyone who follows the industry its common knowledge that GM went bankrupt and cleaned up its balance sheet and shed liabilities. You need a link for that? You are not aware of that? Basically, Chapter 11 allowed GM to do much of what Ford has done and is doing in a short period of time. In terms of debt and liabilities GM is in a better position than Ford right now. From a product perspective both companies are in a good position.

Yoing:

Auto salesmen are known for NOT knowing much about cars or the industry. Anytime I have visited a car dealer I know more than the people who work there. IN fact, its very common to hear false information from a salesman. Its often not intentional, but they just do not know the products well. I think its apparent to anyone who is paying attention that I am definitely not a car salesman.

"No, you have an alter for GM instead. Or they sign your paycheck."

Show me where I said GM vehicles are perfect. Let me know how that quote goes. Also, show me where I said the only vehicles I would consider are GM vehicles. Good luck dude.

"They did at Saturn with the Aura. They're doing it again too, it's called "May the Best car win" and its nothing but gimmick."

The purpose of any ad is to move product. Calling this campaign a gimmick is ridiculous but since you are obligated to hate every move GM makes I can understand your position. A money back guarantee is not a gimmick. The use of the word suggests false advertising or trickery. This is niether. LOok up the word and try to use it correctly.

Belly

Shet -

"You are asking for a link but I don't even know the question."
-I didn't ask you a question. Support what you say with some type of authority. You have little credibility being a blogger, you have even less after how many times you have been refuted here. But since you need a roadmap (you can figure those out right?) trying lending some support to these statements you make:

1. but automotive writers largely agreed that GM's products were much more comparable to the imports than Ford's until this year when the 2010 Fusion came out.

2. GM is largely viewed as having reformed its product development processes earlier than Ford and GM focused on creating great interiors before Ford.

3. there is little doubt that GM is at least as good (if not better) than Ford in other segments including luxury sedans, luxury crossovers, small SUVs, midsize crossovers, etc. - Honestly this is such a stupid statement but if you can support it, I'd love to see how

4. GM has not given a concrete date since coming out of Chatper 11 but has indicated it could be VERY soon.-This is particularly funny. What does very soon mean? And didn't GM think its vehicles would be profitable before?

5. Most analysts believe GM was able to catch up or surpass Ford's progress by going bankrupt. -When will it stop? What is your definition of most?

6. In terms of debt and liabilities GM is in a better position than Ford right now.

H

Why don't you learn the difference between being an automotive enthusiast and an enthusiast site.

The rules also state: Try to be civil to your fellow blog reader.

Go away troll.

Belly

Oh yeah and here are some others to support Shet:

1. At this point GM probbaly isn't even spending taxpayer money.

2. I read the article and the bottom line is rental agencies like buying imports and import companies have made their prices attractive to fleet customers.-How about some support for the part where imports have made incentives for fleet customers?

3. The reliance on fleet sales is one reason why residuals for most Toyota products are no better than GM's latest products.

4. Hyundai is all about gaining marketshare at all costs, they are not concerned about vehicles holding values.

5. SOME american vehicles like the Malibu and CTS have resale equal to imports.-Seriously don't post a link equating a Malibu to an
Accent.

6. Import residuals on mainstream brands are declining and domestic residuals are increasing.-You really called this a fact.

Get the point yet?

6.

Belly

Shet, sorry I mean H, I'm so sorry (again) for offending you. You totally don't deserve. But is just so easy when you post nothing but unsupported unintelligent garbage.

"Why don't you learn the difference between being an automotive enthusiast and an enthusiast site."
-Hah! This is now the new idiot quote of the day!

"The rules also state: Try to be civil to your fellow blog reader."
-You right, but then you would have to actually be able to read though.

Original sheth

Belly:

the internet is widely available. If you have any links to disprove what I've said feel free to post them. Anyone who knows ANYTHING abotu what has happened this year KNOWS that GM is in much better shape now and has shed billions in liabilities and closed unprofitable factories. Why should I have to post links that state the obvious? Do the research yourself if you are confused.

Original sheth

"But is just so easy when you post nothing but unsupported unintelligent garbage. "

That would explain how you come up with material so easily. Well said sir. Do you care to take a poll as to which one of us is posting intelligent material? I like my odds. You do NOTHING but attack me. You post NOTHING of substance and continually demonstrate how little you know about the auto industry.

Original sheth

Belly:

Google ALG and visit their site. Many of your "questions" about resale will be answered. Most Toyota models are rated at 3 stars for projected resale- just like Malibu. Do you know what ALG stands for? Likely not. Like I said, use google.

Dave Wuss

Belly - Here's proof of how dumb he really is.

ALG ranks ALL of GM's products below average industry quality. ALG ranks GM as having the industry worst resale values.

Industry Brand Residual Value Rankings

1. HONDA
2. SUBARU
3. VOLKSWAGEN
4. TOYOTA
5. NISSAN
6. MAZDA
7. SUZUKI
8. SATURN
9. PONTIAC

Typical GM dropping the only two that made the list! Buick, Chevrolet, and GMC all ranked below industry average.

Luxury Brand Residual Value Rankings

1. ACURA
2. LEXUS
3. AUDI
4. INFINITI
5. LAND ROVER
6. BMW
7. PORSCHE
8. MERCEDES BENZ

Caddy didn't even make the list!

https://www.alg.com/pdf/perceived_quality_study.pdf

g

you'd figure the camaro would be on the list considering you can barely purchase one..

Belly

Shet, what? You call me out on ALG when I posted about 5 links to that site the last time you tried to talk about resale.

You didn't respond then and you still haven't.

It is more obvious than ever that you work for GM. You keep with the same point even when all the evidence is against you.

Belly

Shet seriously, post a link you putz.

GM is in much better shape now and has shed billions in liabilities and closed unprofitable factories.
-This not what you said the first time around.

Back up this statement:
"but automotive writers largely agreed that GM's products were much more comparable to the imports than Ford's until this year when the 2010 Fusion came out."
-Please try, and yes I will prove you wrong. You want to call it an "attack", whatever. You can take being proven wrong.

Dave Wuss

He went back into his hole.

H

Marketing Hype 101 by the company that chooses to invest all their money into product:

September 17, 2009 - 9:31 am ET

DETROIT (Reuters) -- Toyota Motor Corp. is preparing a $1 billion marketing campaign to boost U.S. sales in the fourth quarter, while also planning to expand its line of hybrid models under the Prius name, The Wall Street Journal reported today.

Toyota President Akio Toyoda was among those briefing U.S. dealers at a meeting in Las Vegas where the plans were laid out, the newspaper said.

The $1 billion marketing and advertising plan is 30 percent to 40 percent more than Toyota typically spends in the quarter, the report said, citing a person familiar with the matter.

The plan includes subsidizing leases and loan rates, offering other customer incentives and helping pay for dealer ads, the Journal said.

The plan comes as Toyota is struggling with its worst downturn since it was founded in 1937 and is expecting to report a loss for the second straight fiscal year.

Original sheth

Belly/Dave:

Since you are likely the same person I will leave one response. I told you to look up the resale ratings of vehicles on ALG. I said that MOST Toyota products are listed at 4 stars JUST LIKE THE MALIBU. What part of that had you confused? I said NOTHING about a ranking of "perceived quality". Where did that come from? In addition, many Toyota products are rated at 3 stars for depreciation just like many GM/Ford products. Using brandwide averages is stupid because older vehicles or vehicles with high fleet sales can drag down a brandwide ranking. Look at relevant vehicles instead and you will see that the newer offerings by GM (and Ford to a lesser degree) have respectable depreciation ratings.

""but automotive writers largely agreed that GM's products were much more comparable to the imports than Ford's until this year when the 2010 Fusion came out."


READ some reviews. Ford's products really started getting critical acclaim with the 2010 Fusion and the 2009 Flex. Ford's launches in the mid 2000s got OK reviews. That would include everything from the 500/Taurus to the Freestyle to the 2008 Focus to the first Fusion. If anything there is NO proof that Ford vehicles are superior or have been better received by the media. NONE.

Here is a link since you can't find the info yourself.

https://www.alg.com/DepreciationRatings

Original sheth

"GM is in much better shape now and has shed billions in liabilities and closed unprofitable factories.
-This not what you said the first time around. "

actually I said roughly the same thing 2 or 3 times. Your lack of comprehension is your problem. Only a complete idiot would argue that GM is not in much better shape financially after Chapter 11. Why would you waste time making such a foolish argument?

"Shet, what? You call me out on ALG when I posted about 5 links to that site the last time you tried to talk about resale. "

If you posted 5 links how did you miss the chart I just referred to with my link above? Please explain. if you are the resident ALG expert why did you claim ignorance when I told you the Malibu and Camry have the same depreciation rating? Shouldn't someone who is familiar with ALG know that already? Don't shoot the messenger.

Belly

Shet, seriously say comprehension again. You have nooooo idea what that words means. In either Shet "the super idiot" form, or H "the a little less than super idiot" form. I already posted a link showing depreciation between a Malibu and Camry in terms of percentages from ALG. Which do you think is more accurate a 5 star system or one that ranks percentages? Oh I know you know that one. You just want to try and beat around the bush.

"I said roughly the same thing 2 or 3 times"
-Again beat around the bush some more. You tried to compare GM to other companies saying they are the better company per balance sheets and other hard numbers. Lets see support moron! And yet again, lets see some support for this line of BS:

"but automotive writers largely agreed that GM's products were much more comparable to the imports than Ford's until this year when the 2010 Fusion came out."
-Come on just try.

You must be GM's best statistician! Again I love that one with the 86% rating on the cobalt from edmunds, really - 14 people, that was hilarious!

I was also surprised to see the HS 250h on the list

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