Toyota Thinks Plug-In Hybrids Have Limited Appeal

While Toyota’s third-generation Prius just went on sale, the automaker and green groups are already debating what the next Prius should look like.

Many environmentalists already view traditional hybrids as an obsolete technology and are urging Toyota to pursue plug-in hybrid electric vehicles as the way of the future.

But Toyota thinks differently. In the third annual Meeting of the Minds, a convention for environmental issues, Toyota questioned the viability of plug-in technology.

The automaker said it views plug-ins as a technology that will complement traditional hybrids, not replace them.

Toyota officials view the questionable long-term durability of plug-in batteries and American driving habits as inhibitors to the mainstream appeal of plug-in hybrids.

Comments

of course they are going to say that plug-ins have a limited appeal. Toyota just released the third generation Prius, a conventional hybrid. a hybrid, in fact, that doesnt even have lithium ion batteries. plus, there is a rumor going around that the Yaris may see a hybrid version to combat the Insight. Toyota has so many conventional hybrid systems and so much money invested in conventional hybrids that it needs to tell everyone that plug-ins are impractical.

GM may have the two-mode system, but its really only in two vehicles based upon badge engineering, the Tahoe and the Silverado. Both powertrains are identical as well. GM does have its mild hybrid system, but in reality that hybrid system is irrelevant.

Toyota has the synergy drive system configured into many other vehicles with many engine configurations. the Pruis has a 1.8L I4, the Camry a 2.4L I4, the Highlander a 3.3L V6, the HS250h a 2.4L I4, the RX450h a 3.5L V6, the GS450h a 3.5L V6, and the LS600h, a 5.0L V8. With all of this technological investment, it would be illogical for Toyota NOT to tout their products now instead of a vehicle system from GM or Fisker.

Prius-III has captured #1 spot in Japan in May-2009 sales (excluding Minivehicles). In US also it sold 10,000 + vehicles. Since this vehicle is selling well, Toyota does not consider plugins.

But higher gas prices and also if Ford's decides to launch plugins, then Toyota will join the bandwagon.

After all, they took the competition of Insight seriously and reduced the price of Prius.

Oil prices have started increasing and just hit $70 despite the World being in recession. Imagine what will happen in a year.

WOW how about a little education for the two of you! Toyota's position is not based on the lack of battery technology as next year they will have the ability to turn out 1 million NiMH and Li-ion units annually. Toyota partnered with Panasonic to build two factories so they are way ahead of the game. As far as plug-ins go Toyota has had at least a dozen plug-in Prius in the USA at various research facilities (ie U of CA at Berkeley) since 2007. Toyota already knows what plug-ins can and can't deliver. Stop reading into the article and making false statements that are baseless. It's obvious that after dealing with the likes of GM-Ford-Chrysler Americans are not used to a car company telling the truth so they feel the need to invent their own version.

Right on Dave W! Toyota's future high mileage vehicle strategy is based on solid logic and engineering. Several companies will build future plug-in vehicles that are destined for a niche market place (big cities). Toyota will most likely join this market, but plug-in's are not the sole solution for future environmentally friendly vehicles.

Dave W-

its funny that you talk about reading into articles and making assumptions when you talk about batteries...nowhere in my post did i say anything about Toyota being behind in terms of battery technology. yes, i did reference the fact that the Prius III does not have Lithium-ion battery packs, but it was your assumption that led you to think that i was downplaying the system.

Plug-in hybrids are the future. they may not seem like they can "deliver" now, but that is only because of the limited number of options available, most notably the $80,000 Fisker Karma or the $40,000 Chevrolet Volt. as technology advances and batteries become more efficient and automakers refine their designs, plug-ins will become more efficient, larger, and less expensive. there will probably even be plug-in SUV's and other larger vehicles.

the funny thing is, people were saying the same thing about hybrids a few years ago...everyone said they were uncomfortable, slow, and IMPRACTICAL for the time period (referencing when the first Insight debuted). now though, people realize their potential and hybris are available in many different vehicles ranging in shapes and sizes from econoboxes to super-luxury sedans.

the point is, they shouldnt just dismiss plug-ins, because if they had listened to what every one else said about conventional hybrids, then there wouldnt be a Prius III.

I personal view Toyota public smoke-screen as just that. They are waiting to see if GM suceeds or fails. Toyota doesn't need to be first to market but will be ready to be second. Thats why they are doing all that testing quietly.

"...nowhere in my post did i say anything about Toyota being behind in terms of battery technology. yes, i did reference the fact that the Prius III does not have Lithium-ion battery packs..." With logic like that you should run for office. The contradiction is there and it's clear. Learn to appreciate the article for what it is instead of trying to make it into something it's not.

DodgerFan, if Toyota was waiting to see if GM was going to succeed or fail why did they have the plug-in's ready in 2007. Are you saying Toyota is capable of predicting the future so they knew GM was going to fail? Wow I know Toyota is a great company but that's one heck of a compliment. As far as hybrid technology goes GM does not even register. Toyota is the clear leader, followed by Honda and then Ford. They make up the top three. Even Ford has a huge lead on GM and partly because they use Toyota's hybrid software technology for the Fusion and Escape but I'm sure you already knew that;)

Dave W.,
History is full of examples of what happens when companies scoff at innovation...they get left behind.

The future of the automobile is hydrocarbon-free and the plug-in hybrid is the next evolutionary step to that future.

H,
Do you understand how electricity is created? I gather you don't because if you did you would know that any type of plug-in does not play a role in a hydrocarbon-free world. A little education goes a long way.

Dave

At 10 miles / day and 300 days / year, we can drive 3,000 / year on Battery with a Plugin Hybrid with 10 mile range.

After all, a battery with 10 mile range is going to weigh between 30 - 40 lbs and also should cost only 3 - 4K.

Companies like Toyota, Ford, GM can launch a Plugin Hybrid with 10 mile range, instead of talking about 40 mile range and complaining that its battery is too heavy.

If gas prices increase at this level, people may simply keep their vehicles at home and take a Train/Bus ride.

Gas prices are at $2.62/gallon and Oil prices are nearing $71/barrel.

"Prius-III has captured #1 spot in Japan in May-2009 sales (excluding Minivehicles). In US also it sold 10,000 + vehicles. Since this vehicle is selling well, Toyota does not consider plugins."

The Prius did not sell 10k units last month and that was the old car anyway. The new car just came out. Either way Prius sales are WAY down from 2008 due to gas prices and saturation.

Toyota is making excuses because they dont have a solid gameplan for plug ins. They have been downplaying the technolgy since the VOlt was announced and keep coming up with reasons while it will fail. They are afraid that plug ins will steal some of the green limelight from synergy drive. Also, 500 fleet plug ins is nothing to brag about. The Volt (and others) will be available for sale within 2 years.

Dave:

Not all electricity comes from coal plants. Going forward the US will likely get more and more power from other sources. Plug advocates say that electric cars are cleaner even if you account for coal consumption to create power. Sounds like you are just supporting Toyota's excuses.

Dave W.-
you talk about plug-ins not being in a hydrocarbon world. there's a funny thing about that: plug-ins consume much less gasoline than a conventional vehicle and even less then a hybrid. the mean of making the electricity may be by coal, but there are also many different ways to create electricity. the Hoover Dam is an example. Wind farms can be used. solar panel can be put into place in the Southwest, where the desert is uninhabitable anyway. this is besides the fact that as a collective, using coal to make electricity to power your vehicle pollutes much less than gasoline.

you can't just dismiss plug-ins because electricity is made from coal. the electricity being used to power your computer has a very high chance of being generated from burning coal, so you're contributing whether you like it or not. that said, plugging your car into a socket rather than filling up at a gas station is still going to be cleaner.