GM Wants $2.4 Billion in Canadian Aid for New Buick Regal

If you think domestic automakers are only hitting up U.S. taxpayers for help, go north of the border. Canada’s National Post newspaper reported today that GM is asking the Canadian government for $2.4 billion in aid. In exchange, it promises to bring a new Buick model — the Regal, which is already sold in China — to its Ontario plant for North American distribution.

Forgoing all the aid talk — the auto industry is just as vital to the Canadian economy as it is to the U.S. economy — the idea of a new Buick Regal based on the all-new Opel Insignia sedan sold in Europe is a great idea.

GM says it will position the Regal to compete with the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord, but doesn’t say what its new LaCrosse — set to debut in Detroit next month — will be positioned against. The Regal is just 4 inches shorter than the European car that the new LaCrosse is based on.

We’d guess GM could put a four-cylinder in the Regal and market it as a fuel-efficient sub-luxury car, while the LaCrosse would feature just V-6 engines and pack more luxury features. GM could then make the LaCrosse bigger in future years.

Why more Buicks? Well, if GM plans to scale back Pontiac and potentially shut down Saturn, there will be no G6 or Aura sedans to sell, leaving a hole in the marketplace. The new Insignia is getting rave reviews from the very harsh European press, as well.

If bailouts bring us cooler Buicks, maybe they’re not so bad after all. More pics of the Chinese Buick Regal below.

GM trying to charm Canada for aid (National Post)

Comments

I am in love with this car. I don't car what badge it come here under, it just needs to get here, with no changes soon.

Broq

I am going to ask a stupid question because I do not follow the economy and junk like that but I am curious.....why the heck are these automakers going bankrupt? I mean, they sell millions of cars. Where did this problem come from all of a sudden? I do not understand, FoMoCo, GM, and Chrysler have been in business for over 100 years. You'd think they would have saved up some money somewhere?

Nic,
It was threefold IMHO.

#1. Long-term restructuring plans at all three have been ongoing to reduce costs for the better part of a decade. They expanded and made money overseas which didn't force them to scale back in the U.S. as quickly as they needed to if something unforeseen happened in the market...

Chrysler had other issues with new ownership etc.

#2. The high gas prices positively killed the SUV and truck market this summer, the Big 3s most profitable (Toyota's as well) meant less money coming in.

#3 THEN the credit crunch dried up easy credit buyers need to purchase new cars. Lower sales of all cars and SUVs alike brought in even less money.

Dave,

you forgot to mention that GM, Ford, Chry workforce costs much more thant Toyota, Honda in US.

This Buick is nice-looking. I would remove that horisontal chrome bar in the back.
But can it compete with Accord? Looks like it is another Opel-based car. If it is another Aura, then, I think, Iknow its destiny.

Tony,
Yes, I did. You're correct. And remember it is COST not what they are paid.

I think the Opel Insignia competes in a luxury class in Europe- So I would assume this car could easily go toe to toe with the accord. The problem that I see with this and one that the Aura has is that when you have a really good car, but want it to compete in a lower class you have to lower the price, which means cheapening it- that usually comes from the interior which is not a good thing. The car ends up with expensive high end hardware that no one sees because they can't get past the hard, cheap interior.

Broq

As for the comment that GM, Ford and Chrysler workers cost more than Toyota and Honda. Bull! I have worked at GM for 24 years and make the same or less than my skilled trade counterparts at the Honda and 2 Toyota plants that are less than 100 mile from our plant.

Steve,
That's why I said "cost" not "Pay" you are paid very similarly even with your benefits included. It is the cost per hour worked which includes retiree benefits that are considerably higher. The Detroit 3 have been around longer so have more retirees, more costs.

front looks like a mercury milan and the back looks like a saturn auru, oh wait duh it is a GM all of them look the same

Steve,
This is Cars.com not Edmunds so let's not deal in facts as it's mainly about fantasy over here. The bail-out is mainly due to General Motors and Ford making such high quality attractive cars that the public was to scared to buy them. LOL!

The new Buick Regal will compete with the Accord and Camry just like the Malibu has. LOL!!! At least Avis will have another GM car to offer.

steve,

you cost more to GM then Joe Doe to Honda. OK? Thanks to unions.

Lexus exterior, Acura interior... yawn...

but w/o the quality.

Actually, CJ
on second pic from the top, to me, it looks like Volvo

Pete,
uh...we don't say it will compete with accord and camry the company does. we're reporting what they supposedly said.

If the bailout was due to a product problem Nissan and Toyota would be in line too since their sales were down MORE than the domestics in Nov. Nissan more than GM, Toyota more than Ford.

Their govts support their automakers.

Tony,

The insignia competes with the Mondeo, Passat, Laguna and other mainstream family cars in Europe. As such, it'd go against the Fusion, Accord etc here. However, I suspect it is a little smaller than most US competitors, as it's noticably smaller than the much larger Mondeo. Isn't the forthcoming Lacrosse based on a stretched version of this platform?

However, don't compare this to the Aura. Although that car is based on the old Vectra platform, the interior quality of this car is lightyears ahead of the Aura, and significantly better than the Malibu/Fusion etc. If any car can go toe to toe with the Accord in interior quality, it's this one.

The outside looks good, but the inside...(shakes head). The inside looks awfully cheap.

Looks more like a cheap knock off of an ES350 to me. And the interior looks like a cheap knockoff of the TSX's interior (which is sold in Europe as the Euro Accord meaning Opel ripped from Honda...go figure...).

RL
could you elaborate about the interior. I don't see this interioir inferior to the Accord's or Camry's. May be gapping, materials, other assembly quality? - i don't know. But visually and ergonomically it is better, I think.

Here is accord ex-l interior. Compare. I don't see how this Buick has one that bad and Accord has a good one?
http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/0/d/z/ag_08accordexls_intleft.jpg

Look at the stearing wheel. I think, besides the badge it is same one as in Accord

Agreed - except for those who indulge in general GM ripping, i can't see how this interior looks bad. In terms of it's main european competitors it's is one of the nicest, and in terms of US rivals, only the Accord I would rank as higher. Maybe the Mazda6 and Passat too. Other than that, all the other cars in this category have way worse interiors.

wow,
I don't see cheap anywhere. It looks just like the car that just won the european car of the year prze. IMHO- the Accord and Camry are good cars, but take their good names away and there is nothing really special about them- especially their interiors and the accords looks.

Broq

Mart,

do you really think that Passat competes with Accord here? I think whole VW competes with Accord. Passat is not as reliable, not as fuel efficient, not as comfortable as Accord. They lost this battle long ago and they know it. So they went after Volvo, I think.

My point was that this Buick needs to be as comfy, as smooth and as pleasant to touch, as Accord to compete well in this segment. May be somebody thinks that Fusion/Malibu/Aura can compete with Acord/Camry. This is not true. As one driver and ocasional passenger car - yes. As family sedan - not.

Broq,
there is something good about Accord. You need to go for few hours in it, on the rear seat, to appreciate a family sedan like Accord.

Guys,
what about Mazda6? Looks like Accord isn't the standard anymore. 6 has nice interior, exterior, much bigger trunk then Accord. Only fuel economy lets it down. All comparisons name 6 as the NO1 for now

I've been in one many times. Besides it's airy feel and high resale value- It wasn't a winner for me. I know the market tells alot, and thats why I said, without their good names the camry and accord are not all that special. I would take a passat over either of them in a minute- that car feels special, lack of reliability and all.

broq

it could set-up above a jetta/below a passat in that weirder smaller size sedan space like the Acura TSX.

I swear I have seen pretty much this same car in pictures here or somewhere else. They were tauting it as the new Saturn Aura.

Dave,
If you believe that the Japanese have a competitive advantage because they have government sponsored health care then you have proven that at best you have an elementary grasp of the issue. The health care savings that the Japanese receive from the government are more than off-set by the M.I.C.T (manufacturing industrial corporate tax) that all Japanese manufacturing firms pay. The MICT often surpasses the health care advantages by upwards of 11%. The average corporate tax paid by Japanese car companies (in Japan) exceeds that of their American counterparts by 14%. If you had read any of the outstanding articles that the Financial Times or WSJ have recently written on the bail-out topic you would know that the Detroit Three are in the situation they are in not because of Union wages, not because of the retirement health care costs reportedly built into each vehicle, but rather because they are poorly managed. A poorly managed company like a GM will not attract top talent (ie engineers) resulting in a synergistic ripple effect. On the other hand an exceptionally managed company (ie Honda) will always attracts top talent (ie managers, engineers, designers). Most people don't know that Soichiro Honda was a drop-out of a public engineering school. He focused on building better pistons so he could support pay his bills and support his family. His first financial backer was Toyota and the rest is history. Honda went from building pistons to engines to motorcycles to cars. Arguably it's the best run car company in the world because it has exceptional management which attracts top talent. General Motors is driven by bean-counters, excuses, and a poisoned culture, and it's time to let them fail.

Interesting post, but I'm not sure if I agree with all of it.

I too agree that the above post is interesting, but it really sounds like an editorial more than anything. I have read plenty of articles from Forbes, the WSJ and many other sources that say just the opposite of the above. While I think mismanagement has an effect, the company did not get as big as it did by being mismanaged. It's just that they weren't prepared for the situation they are in right now. I truly don't agree with the statement that a mismanaged company will not attract top talent. I don't think that has anything to do with it. If someone can come to a business and make a lot of money they will, mismanaged or not.

So GM wants $2.4 bil from Canada to build this? lol we're already giving them billions, so they just go ask the other parent for money since the other one said no?

Although it's the nicest Buick I've ever seen (although I'm sure this won't be as nice in production - most cars usually aren't), did GM drop one ounce of uniqueness and creativity to it?

Milan front, TL back, Acura swoopy interior design...oh and GM's "reliability"...

first of all, someone that thinks a Passat is not as comfortable as an Accord has not sat in either. Hands down, the interior quality and comfort of the seats blows the Accord, Camry, Malibu, and Altima out of the water. Then again, it should since the Passat is a couple thousand dollars more. Also,the Passat actually gets better fuel economy than the Accord via Consumer Reports. The 2.0T gets 24 mpg, vs. the Accord LX-P I4's 23. The Passat 3.6 gets 22 mpg vs. the Accord's 21 mpg. Sure, VW recommends premium for both engines, and the Passat would probably get the same fuel economy as the Accord while running on regular, but the Passat will still be able to outrun the Accord. 200hp vs. 177, and 280 vs. 268. According to CR, the Passat V6 is six tenths of a second faster to 60 than the Accord V6.

After actually sitting in an Accord, you'll see that although the fits are very good, and the seams are tight, its all just a big box of plastic that looks a little bit better than what you'd find in a Camry.

Ford and GM are actually doing fairly well outside of the US. So, I don't think their current situation has to do with mismanagement entirely. GM has too many brands and needs to eliminate some, as they have indicated. Ford needs to get rid of Volvo. Lets face it ... there are just too many car companies (both domestic and foreign) competing for a shrinking North American market.

The UAW needs to go or get smaller ... it's ridiculous that the Big 3 pays about $79/hr to union workers, while Toyota pays $47/hr ... how can one expect the big 3 to competively priced their cars with foreign makes. Who can blame them for making SUVs when they can take in huge profits to offset some of the ridiculously high legacy costs related to healthcare and pension? Besides, they are just going with the trend at the time when the american public wanted big SUVs and trucks.

Tallis,
I've followed all those great business pubs on this issue. I was trying to simplify an issue for someone, not go into a WSJ style writeup. I still think govt funded healthcare, plus govt funded pensions, plus straight up govt funded loans and R&D that countries like Japan practice (I'm not saying this is wrong) still means it is an advantage.

I'm not saying GM and Chrysler are blameless. But I also think in 3-6 months EVERY carmaker around the world will be getting govt assistance. The talk in Germany right now is that BMW and Mercedes will be in similar straights because of lower demand.

I've also read tremendously opinionated pieces in all those publications basically saying GM and Ford make crap. Which I don't think is accurate. They're also not treating Chrysler separately like I think they should.

im just glad GM has pulled their head out of the US rubbish bin and is looking for GM cars that are being built around the world. hopefully the next North American bound car will be a large rear wheel drive sedan to replace the DTS or Impala, which hopefully GM will return their thoughts to the Australian Holden Statesman. And hopefully Ford USA notices that their Taurus and Crown Vic are, well, just plain CRAP, consider the European Ford Mondeo to replace the Fusion and the Australian Falcon to replace the Taurus or Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car

---------------Accord Passat

City 21 mpg. 19 mpg.
Highway 30 mpg. 28 mpg.

Front Headroom 41.4 in. 38.4 in.
Rear Headroom 38.5 in. 37.8 in.
Front Shoulder Room 58.2 in. 55.7 in.
Rear Shoulder Room 56.4 in. 54.6 in.
Front Hip Room 56.6 in. Not Published
Rear Hip Room 54.3 in. Not Published
Front Leg Room 42.5 in. 41.4 in.
Rear Leg Room 37.2 in. 37.7 in.

I don't deny that Passat has more power. But what for? In Europe these cars use 1.8L engines. Accord has plenty of power for it. And then... reliability of Passat....

--------LX-P |Turbo 4dr Sedan (2.0L 4cyl Turbo 6A)
MSRP $22,555 $25,065
Invoice $20,456 $23,432

Funny part, in the end the Passat can be sold for as much as Accord - around $20.5K

About interior... I like VW interiors. But beauty has its cost - the components fall apart, rattles develop. VWs get very loose with years. Accord's plastic will be in the same place in 10 years. At least, that is what history tells. Seriously. Guy next door has Jetta, 10 yo, 150K. I have Protege 10 yo, 150K. He drove my car and said: "I don't understand. I can't believe".He wasn't amaized by Protege. He was disapointed with Jetta.

Its a good trade for the Canadian Gov. You would probabily break even over time since you will earn taxes off employees wages and suppliers based in Canadian. The plant has a product guarrenteeing it will be open. If some of the aid is in form of a loan Canadian government might make money.

is this the replacement for the "Allure"? How will this car differ from the US "LaCrosse"?

I know this may be a little way off topic but I live overseas in Japan and hardly do i see an american built car here. Is it because of narrow roads? Is it because of styling? I do not know, but all i know that about 75% of the cars out here are Domestics (to Japan) and most the others are German cars. Is it just me or does it seem American Vehicles only popular (but losing this to JDMs) in N. America and Europe?

This is probably the best buick I've seen i quite awhile not including the Enclave, but from what I've seen in the past, Saturns have seemed to outlive Buicks... at least thats my experiance and i noe its like comparing a elk to a deer here with buick and saturn but this was back when Saturn was tupperware and buicks were tin.

My family are avid Saturn fans ever since their 1st Gen products and every new car we've owned were Saturns. we loved the service we got when we bought our car and even with the services afterwards. ive seen Saturn move up market and what i dont get is that Saturn HAS been successful compared to a dealer to unit sale. i mean there is more than double the number of Chevy Dealerships to Saturn dealerships. what i remember but im not sure is that there are around 400-600 Saturn dealerships in America. so maybe its not Saturn itself but Availablity compared to other GM cars?

SteveG ,
you have lived in Japan for too long.
also, Japan is a country where people live in apartments with 6.5 foot ceilings and eat beef only on bei holidays...
The reason you don't see American cars there is because they are too expensive for what they are and people who have money to spend do buy German cars. I think, it comes from the times of war where Germans were giving Japs some equipment and Japs were amaized how good it was.

I don't know what you laboring there about Saturn... But one reason why Buick is dead, is same reason Olds is dead. Their custome base is gone. Why do you think, the central advertizing point for Buick was Tiger? Because they thought that American golfing croud is the best clientele who will actually buy them. They have money and pro-American. But Buick can't compete with all the available luxury. Their customer base gone! A 60 year old guy with money today is the guy who drove Accord and he will go for Acura.
Saturn was originally a poor student's plastic car. Then GM decided they need to grow Saturn to size of Honda and added trucks. Trucks ended, so did Saturn. In other words, besides cust service Saturn didn't do anything differently then Chevy.

looks nice but the only change from the "insignia" is the grille. Buick should just use that name instead of Regal! IMHO.

Tony,
What trucks does Saturn build? They have a small SUV (which are hot) and a big crossover (which are hot)- like Honda. Saturn may not be all that successful right now, but it is not for the reason that you say.

Broq

Sorry to bring up an old point here but:

"May be somebody thinks that Fusion/Malibu/Aura can compete with Acord/Camry. This is not true. As one driver and ocasional passenger car - yes. As family sedan - not."

Seriously?? You believe that?? All three of those cars, although maybe not the class leaders are clear and obvious competitors of the Accord and Camry. if they aren't, then what is?? In terms of size, price and performance, all of them are VERY close. In terms of the Fusion and Malibu, they are close in terms interior ambiance too.

When it comes to the Passat, the main thing holding it back is price. In terms of the interior quality, it is so clearly ahead of all the competitors that there is no argument. I've never owned a VW so cannot talk to its reliability, but where I grew up in the UK, VWs were always held in the very highest regard, and still are.

Back on topic, I would be surprised if Buick introduce this to the US market. It seems very close to the new Lacrosse and would make little sense. However, as a canada only model, maybe you'd get that instead of the Lacrosse, and the US market will get the Insignia as the new Aura. That would make more sense, so long as they don't kill off Saturn first.

Mart,
It seems like nothing competes with Camcord to some of these guys, lol.

Broq

Have I ever driven a US spec Honda / Toyota? No. I have not even visited the US during my lifetime. Have I ever driven the Euro spec accord and camry/avensis? YES. Do I think their interiors are great? No, not really.. Do I think they handle well? Ok (Accord) and ABSOLUTELY NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (Avensis).

I used to drive a Toyota (company car, no other viable choice) Avensis, same size as the Euro Accord which I have also tried out. No way am I ever going to drive another one of those. They are made for pensioners (before people think I am 18, I wish)... Both are not on the same level as the current crop of US owned companies Euro cars.

The Insignia is seriously sweet, if only it would drive as good as the Ford Mondeo I might actually chose it next time I need a new car. For now I will stick with my Mondeo though.

The VW Passat is not as nice and well built inside as the Isignia (which seriously is up there with the C, 3, A4 - please note I do not mention Lexus, as they are a none starter and thus not important over here... And the 2.2l 4 cylinder diesel they used is utter crap (breaks down, no power, etc etc)...) but a little bit nicer than the Mondeo which more than makes up for it by handling a hell of a lot better than the VW (please bear in mind we have corners over here and therefore need harder sprung cars to stop them from rolling over).

As far as that Saturn Astra thing goes, I am not a big fan of the Euro Opel / Vauxhall. Give me the Ford Focus anyday, The Euro spec Focus is one of the best ever small size hatchbacks and makes mince meat of an A3 / Golf when it comes to the handling. Interior nearly on par with A3 as well. The Astra still beats the Corolla though. Very easily as well.

I have said it before but I cannot believe how you lot are let down by the domestic US car makers. We have seriously nice cars here made by FORD / GM and I would seriously find it quite sad if Ford would go down and I had to trade my Mondeo in for some non descript Japanese car (yes, the skyline is nice. unfortunately they do not do a frugal diesel estate version of it, same applies to 370z and RX8).

I have not mentioned Chrysler before. I have never driven / sat in one of thier products. They produce cars on some rather great platforms at this point in time (former MB E-class, SLK and Mitsubishi Lancer Evo / Outlander etc). If they cannot make a luxury car work on the E-platform (Chrysler 300) or a small car handle on the Lancer platform (Dodge Caliber)... Even the Chinese would be reluctant to buy them!!