McCain Hype: $300 Million for Better Batteries

In our never-ending quest to dissect the hype consumers are bombarded with by the mainstream media, today we take on presidential nominee John McCain’s proposal to give a $300 million prize to anyone who can develop a “battery package that has the size, capacity, cost and power to leapfrog the commercially available plug-in hybrids or electric cars."

What’s the problem with that? There are no commercial plug-in electric or fully electric vehicles on the market today, and there won’t be until 2010 if you listen to GM and Toyota, the two automakers with the firmest plans in place. 

Yes, there are niche electric-car manufacturers out there, like Tesla, but is that really what the senator from Arizona is talking about?

He also proposes a $5,000 tax credit on zero-emission cars. The only cars with zero emissions are all-electric or hydrogen, and neither type is close to mass production.

How about $300 million in tax breaks to get battery firms to start manufacturing in the U.S.? The one thing keeping hybrids in limited supply and at high prices here is the availability of the expensive batteries they need in order to run.

Sorry, that’s just us babbling. Go back to the never-ending blathering from both candidates that won’t end up impacting actual consumers.

McCain's $300M lure for new, 'green' car battery sparks buzz (USA Today)

Comments

[maxwell]

One little bitty problem with plugins: Where do you plug them in?

Take a look at cities where people live in apartments and park their car on the street - wherever they can find a space. In some cases people park a few blocks from where they live.

Even in my suburban neighborhood, most people have to park cars on the street. Yes, we could all run 50 to 100 foot extension cords, but it would not work too well.

Are rest stops on intestates to offer plugin capability? How long does it take to charge the car? Are you supposed to wait 6 hours at the rest stop?

How about hotels and motels? Are they supposed to retrofit their parking?

There are a LOT of questions to be answered before jumping on the plugin bandwagon.

[Colin B.]

I live in the city I would still probably by a Chevrolet Volt (world's first mass produced PEV hopefully).

If I can't find a garage to rent it won't matter to much. The thing is suppose to get 50 mpg and since it's essentially a electric car with a generator in it...it will sound really cool too!

If I were McCain or Obama I would offer oodles of support to PEV and hybrid vehicle makers. But only to OEMs who produce the cars in America or the NAFTA countries--we need to help our own out after all. The Japanese and Chinese would (and do) do the same.

[Red]

I find it disturbing that Cars.com would lead with the title, "McCain Hype...". The state of journalism is so poor that articles that lead with bias often go unnoticed. Although I don't agree with most of McCain's platform I do admire him for thinking outside the box. It was this type of thinking that lead to the Manhatten Project and JFK's concept of putting a man on the moon.

For the record I am a Democrat who will be voting for BHO, but as an avid reader I miss the days of quality journalism.

[woogie]

Plug ins don't negate the carbon foot print if you are pulling the power from coal/oil/natural gas generating stations. All these plug ins are simply going to increase the demand for these fossil fuels to power the generating stations.

A well tuned gas powered hybrid is going to be cleaner than pulling power off the grid.

Until they come up with a battery that can go more than 40 miles on a charge and take less than 5 minutes to charge, you're not going to see non-hybrid electrics.

[Dave T.]

Red,
I think the quality of journalism covering this proposal the past two days completely missed the fact that what McCain is saying has no basis in what's on sale commercially right now.
So either he misspoke (which I'll accept) or it's hype. The auto industry is an ever evolving one and we spend every day covering it. I would guess neither campaign does the same.

[AV]

I think Red's point is that if Obama would have said this, you guys would be going nuts over it.

[Dave T.]

Um, yeah we'd be all over Obama if he said this. When a politician tries to discuss hybrid tech in his campaign in such a mis-represented way we'll cover it. WE actually have been trying to do less of the political stuff because it is everywhere else these days, but this really stuck out.
If we miss something by either candidate you think we should address let us know!

[Colin B.]

woogie it's a lot easier to change what type of power is used on the grid then it apparently is for transportation to do so. Over the past century we have built 200k+ gas stations, hundreds of refineries and dozens upon dozens of pipelines. Even George Bush said, "We are addicted to oil."

PEVs are a good short-term strategy to offset our oil usage until we can figure out something else. Instead of the ambitious car industry stand point, that we will leapfrog to full-electric or hydrogen. A fraction of our energy grid is dependent on oil, compared with a near monopoly for transportation.

Also believe it or not it is still more efficient to plug in your car than to merely run it as a parallel hybrid, because if everyone is plugging in at night or off-peak times then all we are doing is harnessing the full capacity of our energy network.

[Jeffrey Davis]

I think Red's got it backwards. If something is hype, then we should call it hype. That's what real journalism is about. The just-passing-along-what-they-said deference of most news outlets is just stenography. Opinion doesn't need to be inserted, just fair evaluation.

Another reason this is hype: building a better battery could reap multi-billion dollar rewards (the applications extend well beyond cars), which is why so many engineers have long been hard at work on the problem. It's not like the idea never occured to anyone and a government prize changes the game.

[woogie]

The problem is that harnessing the full potential of the energy network requires burning fossil fuels at an extreme rate. Increasing the demand to night time does not equal clean power, it just means we won't see the pollution because it's being produced after the sun goes down.

Did you know there are coal fired plants that come on line when demand peaks? Did you know that those plants have a premium applied to the cost of each KW of power produced due to the pollution they produce?

Adding more demand to an already dirty system does not make sense.

How many new clean generating plants have we produced in the time we've put thousands of clean hybrids on the road? How many dirty plants have been decommissioned?

Sixty Minutes ran a piece on the hydro dams on the Columbia River. Some of the cleanest electricity out there. And the environmentalists want to tear them all down for the fish. Good for the fish, bad for us, because they don't have a plan to make up the loss in power generation.

Plug in power is still dirty power, you just don't see the pollution coming out of the tail pipe.

[Lil'Tom]

What he said may have been meaningless, but I'm quite impressed that he's pushing battery technology and building dozens of nuclear plants instead of talking about hydrogen, corn based ethanol, and wind power.

[Original Red]

I agree with what Mr. McCain is trying to do but agree this is hype, and have no problem with the headline. Batteries that have the ability to store an amount of energy that's anywhere near the amount contained in gasoline will be ultra expensive, no matter who invents them. Progress in battery technology will come gradually and in small steps and doesn't lend itself to this type of reward plan. If it could have been done it would already have been done, because some of the top scientists in the world are working on it. Lithium Ion offers the most promise but runaway thermal issues continue to be a challenge. Woogie, coal plants are usually on line 24/7 and are known as baseload plants, along with nuclear. Plants used during peak times are usually natural gas and cost much more to run. The nation's electric grid is about 50 percent coal, and federal regulations prohibit utilities from making major repairs on them without updating them with new emissions equipment, so the grid is actually getting cleaner every day.

[Hybridcarblog.com]

Since pretty much everything politicians say right now is political spin geared towards the 30 second soundbyte, most everything either Obama or McCain states is essentially hype. So, is every political statement regarding the auto industry going to include 'hype' in the title of Kicking Tires articles?

In this particular case of "hype", McCain is saying exactly what US automakers have been asking for, especially since GM debuted the Volt at NAIAS 2007, except for the fact that they've been asking for far more financial help on batteries.

Thus, I think titling this article 'hype' is missing the point. Only hydrogen or electric vehicles are going to be the kind of game changers that can end foreign oil dependence, for instance. That requires vision and planning several years before the technology will actually be mature. Yet, to the early bird goes the worm.

McCain's plan assures automakers that heading in the direction of the electrification of the automobile will be supported if automakers can get there, if they are the early birds. Considering the financial situation of US automakers, I think such clarity assures automakers that vehicles, such as the Volt, will achieve strong government support.

That's not hype. It's just a shot over Obama's green bow.

[PJ]

Democrats: No drilling, No nuclear

Higher gas prices and higher electricity rates brought to you by the party that claims to represent the middle class. Brilliant!

You can sleep soundly knowing that the whales and caribou are safe. LOL

[LM]

I do sleep soundly knowing whales and caribou are safe...it means I am a good steward of the earth that we inherited and will leave behind...

Now...on to some points above:
1. Plugging in PEVs overnight will utilize the grid when demand is lowest, so power plants will be more efficient.

2. Solar power is about to reach parity with fossil fuel-based power pricewise and we have A LOT of territory we can cover with solar arrays. Solar could just be what saves us.

3. McSame is doing nothing but pandering. He is a total hypocrite by promoting battery research while at the same time demanding to drill offshore for more oil and gas. He doesn't really care about the environment and global warming if he wants to drill for oil.

4. There is a problem in cities for PEVs. I live someplace where I could not plug in my car if I wanted to. One solution would be for street side infrastructure similar to parking meters, but no one wants to pay taxes to put this in place. Urban dwellers are generally out of luck. As far as others, tax incentives can help homeowners and businesses install recharging equipment.

5. As an Obama supporter, I do not agree with his support for ethanol. I understand why he has done it - his constituents demand it (Illinois = second biggest corn producer). But now he is going to represent all of us and ethanol is not beneficial to all Americans.

[Dave T.]

The solution to charging PEVs at home for city dwellars is removable batteries like those in cell phones and laptops. They'd be bigger (briefcase size?) but could be carried to an apt.

As far as each candidates energy platform: that's not what we were covering here. There are really good arguments for new nuclear plants that are cutting edge, like in France. As well as wind and solar which are getting more efficient and doing off-shore hydro-electric like in England.

For cars, battery development is key. Ethanol from cellulosic sources is also an excellent idea that many companies are working on and that we have covered here on KT. In the end neither has all the answers, or the right ones yet. We'll see where it goes.

[Lil'Tom]

A briefcase sized Li-ion battery would probably be too heavy for limp-wristed city folk.

Batteries could be made a portable size, but now matter how you divide it you'd have several hundred pounds of batteries you'd have to schlep in and out of your house every single day. Plus having more smaller individual batteries makes the overall size and weight of the batteries bigger. The batteries would also have to be easily accessible, meaning they would have to be placed as far towards the front and/or back as possible, which would diminish handling and make the batteries vulnerable to collisions.

[LM]

Removable, in-home charged batteries are not feasible. A standard battery that you can swap out at a service center (old gas stations) is however, a great idea. Hoist the vehicle up, drop out the depleted battery, insert the new one, and you're off. All in under 10 minutes. Not only would it keep "gas" stations in business, it would allow for tight quality control of the battery pack. Leaking ones could be pulled from circulation and repaired or recycled...

I'm on to something here...stop me now!

[Dave T.]

how is an at home system not feasible but an exchange, like a propane exchange, is?
Not quite sure. If you can lift it yourself you should be able to put it in your home.

[LM]

Not lift it yourself...lift the whole car up to access a large flat battery pack stored underneath. This process could be done relatively quickly (like changing a tire).

Not lifting it out (self-serve) style.

[Original Red]

I would like to see "smart" power outlets located outside apartment buildings. Anybody plugs in to any one - when the owner and account number are identified, a metered flow of electricity is activated, with the charges automatically being added to your monthly electric bill.

[Original Red]

An even simpler idea would be public outlets with a keypad for each one. You plug in, type in your PIN, and that session of charging is automatically charged to your monthly bill

[Dave T.]

i think the lift out idea is something that would be under the trunk or in the trunk that's easy to get to and lift out.

[LM]

Regardless of the details, a standard battery pack would need to be developed and be interchangeable. I think this is a really good idea, as again it allows for easier maintenance if a problem occurs. Of course the downside is it would force a standard design for all cars which would decrease creativity in integrating the battery within the car (i.e. all cars would have to be designed to fit a generic box of a battery. I suppose this would be offset by economies of scale achieved through mass production). I think plug in at home is infeasible for masses due to the number of people who have to park on the street.

[Original Red]

Because of legal liabilities, I don't think any manufacturer will allow a consumer to be handling a fully charged, high voltage traction battery. The voltages and amperages involved are enough to kill. Just look at the warnings relating to the relatively small battery in the Prius and you get the idea. Now multiply the juice in that battery by 25 times or more and that adds up to being too dangerous. The connections alone would have to be very robust and absolutely secure to carry that much current and it wouldn't lend itself to the consumer changing the battery on the way to work in the morning. I'm guessing designers will keep drivers as far away from those batteries and connections as possible.