Honda FCX Clarity Hype

If you see a lot of media coverage today about Honda announcing production of its new hydrogen-powered car, the FCX Clarity, don’t get overly excited. This is not a new car you can go out and buy. Nor can you even get on a waiting list. We wouldn't blame you for being confused, Honda promotes it on its own website with language like "Hits The Streets Summer 2008."

That's true. A few dozen FCX Clarity models will go to pre-selected users in California as part of a test program. They will be leased for three years — at $600 a month — and returned to Honda at the end of the term. About 50,000 people applied to the program. Stars like Jaime Lee Curtis and other Hollywood celebs somehow made it through the process to get their names selected for the FCX, which will start showing up on roads in July.

Cars.com’s Joe Wiesenfelder one-upped the celebs, driving an early version of the FCX way back in November, and delivered these two videos. Take that, Jaime Lee.

The mass media is also quick to report that the major drawback of the FCX is the lack of hydrogen refueling stations. Even in California there are just a few. They neglect to mention that if someone were to pay the actual cost of an FCX, they’d be looking in the six-digit range. The technology is that expensive.

We still just want to drive the upcoming Honda CR-Z hybrid sports compact.

Comments

I'm sure it would be cheaper at high volume, but like you said...there's no infrastructure for it. Looks like Honda pulled a page out of GM's book. They were advertising the Volt (in their commercials) well before there was a prototype or even a test mule.

Honda's making a step in the right direction. You can't get the cost of production down until you start actually producing it. Hybrid technology was expensive at first. Honda is also developing fuel stations that you can have at home.

Ziggy,
I think the different in expense is much much different between the two technologies. The problem is no one will say how much it costs but we're probably talking ferrari money for a FCX Clarity. where hybrids were losing $10K early on or so.

All of you should grab today's WSJ as there is an excellent interview w/ the CEO of Honda starting on the front page of the MarketPlace section. You can clearly see why Honda is so successful and why the FCX Clarity is no teaser.
Also to those who compare GM to Honda, get a clue. The FCX Clarity is a real car having already been captured driving on the streets of LA (see C&D website). The Volt is another Lutz special - all talk, zero delivery.

The Clarity will join the failed Insight and Accord Hybrid on the shelf, next to the new diesels they're planning. The fuel cell stack has a proton exchange membrane that can be easily contaminated and would need to be changed periodically at a very high cost. There's no comparison between hybrids and this incredibly complex joke.

Red,

I beg to differ. Times are alot different then they were when the Accord Hybrid and Insight were out. BTW, have you tried to find a used Insight for sale?

Troy, It's hard to find a used Insight because they only sold a total of 18,000 around the world in eight years. It was discontinued because of poor sales. I want to see somebody come up with the magic bullet to beat high gas prices as much as anybody, but I doubt we'll see widespread use of fuel cells in cars for at least 20 years, maybe longer. As a wise man once said: "Hydrogen is the fuel of the future, and always will be." I think most of us who are adults will see the internal combustion engine in hybrid vehicles for the foreseeable future with ongoing improvements in efficiency as the most practical solution. Electric only cars will be popular in urban settings.

I'm with Red on this. Not even NASA or the US military - organizations that will spend hundreds of billions of dollars investigating/developing propulsion systems like scramjets, antimatter reactors, and solar winds hitting 15-mile long, 20 micrometer wide electrified cables - have found any good reason to use hydrogen fuel cells.

The bottom line is that there's no hydrogen infrastructure in the US, and there won't be one time soon because it just doesn't make any sense. The process of obtaining and transporting hydrogen requires much more energy than the hydrogen will produce (I believe it's around four times as much energy).

Perhaps one day researchers will find a way to produce hydrogen using solar energy - either through photovoltaics, or some organic process (plants have been doing it for eons) - and we'll all use fuel cells, but the FCX is just this generations EV1.

Red shows his ignorance in both product viability and product availability. 1) Honda is not "planning" any "new diesels" as they've been available in the European market for several years. Honda has had them retrofitted to meet American emissions for more than a year however that does not translate into the American public wanting them. Honda made the right call by not bringing them here as the price of diesel is cost prohibitive. Currently a diesel Accord (the European Accord) is suppossed to be available late 2008 (according to C&D). 2) The Insight was a major success as it proved a car company could build, market, and support a hybrid vehicle. If you knew ANYTHING about the history of development of the Prius you would know that Yoshiro Kimbara (Toyota VP R&D) cited the Insight as the #1 motivating factor behind the development of the Prius. He put advancement of battery technology as #2.

Although I drive a 530i (company car) I have no problem admitting that Honda is the best run car company. As another poster mentioned earlier today's WSJ has a very good article about Honda that includes an interview with Fukui Hones their CEO. He talks about their basis for successa and the new hybrids that will be debuting over the next several years.

Sounds like the EV1 all over again. A beutiful feat in engineering that ends up being cherished after its crushed.

Jordan,
On point one about the Honda Diesels, you mention they made the right decision in not bringing them here, so I guess my comment about them being shelved is correct. On point #2, if you want to call a two seat upholstered roller skate a "major success," that's your choice, but the buying public and even Honda agrees the Insight was a failure - that's why they pulled it from the market. Put your money where your mouth is and drop the BMW and buy a used Insight if you think they're so great.

The Insight put hybrids on the map so only an idiot would call it a failure. And unless I'm missing something why would someone give up a BMW company car (ie free) to buy an old Insight?

I think Red is angry for getting dope-slapped.

I knew there would be one Insight owner somewhere who would make that kind of post. Congratulations on adding nothing to the discussion.

This content has been Agglom (erated) with other similar ones on http://www.agglom.com/agglom/53 - Honda FCX Clarity

Do they teach reading comprehension in public schools any more? I read through all of the posts and I didn't see anyone identifying themselves as a Insight owner.

Either way the Insight and the Clarity are both remarkable achievements. Honda clearly has their act together unlike GM-Ford-Chrysler.

Red,

You missed my point. Try to find an Insight today as the gas tables have changed since they were new.

A year long test of the Insight conducted by a magazine netted an average of 48 mpg...about the same mileage as a three cylinder GEO Metro, which costed half as much and carried twice as many people (12 year old Metros are now selling on Ebay for 10 times their book value). The Insight was not a remarkable achievement. It also wasn't the first Hybrid, as gas electric hybrids were available to the American public as early as 1912, including a hybrid truck that was sold until 1940. The Insight was a novelty, that only managed to sell 2,000 copies a year worldwide before being cancelled. Meanwhile Toyota sold 1,000,000 Priuses in the same time span, because it, and not the Insight, was the remarkable achievement. Unlike some of the GM bashers, I am willing to give the Volt a chance, and I think it's possible Chevy might leapfrog Toyota. I don't think the Clarity or any fuel cell vehicle will gain widespread acceptance anytime soon.

As a former Honda Insight Product Manager I will be more than happy to disprove the multiple inaccuracies put forth by 'Red'.

Red posted:
"A year long test of the Insight conducted by a magazine netted an average of 48 mpg." The EPA mileage was posted as 61 City, 70 Highway. C&D magazine confirmed this to be obtainable in October 1999. It also well documented that many owners have achieved Highway mileage into the 80's.

"12 year old Metros are now selling on Ebay for 10 times their book value." Congratulations on your new car.

"The Insight was not a remarkable achievement. It also wasn't the first Hybrid..." The Honda Insight was the FIRST mass-produced hybrid automobile sold in the UNITED STATES. It was also the first vehicle to ever attain SULEV status.

"The Insight was a novelty, that only managed to sell 2,000 copies a year worldwide before being cancelled." The Honda Insight sold from 1999 to 2006, hardly a failure by any stretch of the imagination. Honda sold an average of 2,000 Insights annually in JAPAN alone.

"Meanwhile Toyota sold 1,000,000 Priuses in the same time span..." The Honda Insight was sold from 1999 to 2006. The Prius just passed 1 million in May 2008 - it took 11 years to do so (1997 - 2008). Same time span? Not by a long shot.

"Unlike some of the GM bashers, I am willing to give the Volt a chance, and I think it's possible Chevy might leapfrog Toyota." Like I said, enjoy your Geo Metro which by the way GM was incapable of designing and engineering themselves. I'm sure the Volt will be a great success just like Bob Lutz predicted the Chevy Cobalt will surpass the Toyota Corolla.

"I don't think the Clarity or any fuel cell vehicle will gain widespread acceptance anytime soon." You don't have to worry about that as the only GM fuel cell vehicle you'll ever see is in magazines.

GM's stock price reflects the pathetic portfolio of products they offer. GM pioneered one thing - offering the employee discount to the public. LOL

Scott, sorry that the Insight didn't make it and that "former" is part of your title. Check on the history of Hybrids and you'll learn that Ferdinand Porsche designed the world's first hybrid car at the turn of the last century and it incorporated electric motors into the wheel hubs - a more advanced design than anything on the Insight. Several hybrid vehicles were sold in the U.S. a century ago so the Insight was not first. You can quibble about the exact numbers of hybrids sold by Toyota but let's just say that 500 Priuses have been sold for each Insight sold. I don't think that adds up to a success story for Honda by any stretch of the imagination. I applaud Honda for trying new things and my comments are not meant to disparage the Honda company or its employees or former employees. By the same token, you shouldn't be so critical of General Motors, a great American company on whose shoulders companies like Honda and Toyota stand.

Red,
Toyota is worth 16x more than GM. Who's standing on who's shoulders? GM is not even in the same class as Honda, Toyota or even Nissan. As far as GM being American tell that to the Chinese who build GM engines.

Honda is more American than GM and builds the best American car - the Accord.

I don't want to sound like some GM fanboy, but regarding the comments suggesting that Honda is so superior to GM consider:

Last year GM launched a fleet of over 100 hydrogen fuel cell Chevy Equinox in NYC, Washington DC, and southern California. This is the largest "real world" fleet of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles in the world (I believe this is more hydrogen fuel cell vehicles than all other manufacturers in the world combined, but I can't find my source on that).

Again, I'm not a GM fanboy. I just don't believe Honda is so far ahead on alternative fuels, and I don't believe the FCX is some kind of paradigm shifting creation.

Hey Doug, the new Accord does look nice. I especially liked the styling the first time I saw it...on the Saturn L series some years back. Like Lil'Tom, I'm no GM fanboy either, but the General deserves a little more respect than it gets. Honda promotes its integrated motor assist hybrid system, the small electric motor attached to the gasoline engine, which helps the engine and acts as the starter motor. Well, GM was the first company to integrate an electric motor starter on a gasoline engine, on the 1912 Cadillac. So Honda's hybrid system is based on a century old idea hatched at GM. GM also invented the automatic transmission, an idea I think has been copied by a few other automakers. Toyota is an awesome company with incredible products and innovation, but until Toyota, Honda,or Nissan captures over 50 percent of the American market as GM did for years, I would say that those companies stand on GM's shoulders.

Toyota stock $102.15
Honda stock $34.81
GM stock $14.79

Did you know that 80% of GM cars are still on the road? The other 20% made it home.

Only poor people buy GM. People who are educated and have money buy quality, they buy Toyota and Honda.