Chevy To Get New Compact, Hummer Brand Under Review

GM announced today that it is rapidly altering its future production to meet the new demands of an American buying public thirsty for fuel efficient vehicles. That shift in demand could also spell the end of Hummer as a GM brand.

The biggest news on the fuel efficiency front is that GM will introduce an all-new Chevrolet-branded compact car in the U.S. and globally. It will not be a Cobalt or an Aveo; the Aveo will be redesigned and GM will add new, high-efficiency engine technology for the U.S. What that means, we can only guess.

What we do know is that GM is ramping up production at two of its car assembly plants to produce these new cars, as well as current models.

Unfortunately, the company is also stopping production completely at four plants that build trucks and SUVs, although there was no announcement of any canceling of specific truck and SUV models.

News is dire for fans of the Hummer brand. CEO Rick Wagoner said the brand is “under review.” Which means it could be considered for sale or go to the chopping block. He also singled some move on Hummer as one of three key “operational and strategic actions required to position GM for sustainable profitability and growth.”

Do you think it’s time for Hummer to go the way of the Dodo? Or Oldsmobile? Let us know.

Comments

As much as I hate Hummer, aren't there other brands that they can get rid of? Hummer is iconic (good or bad), and it's not like there's any overlap with that brand like with GM's others. GM should kill GMC (rebadged Chevys) , Saturn (why do they even have this brand?), Pontiac (what does this brand have to offer?), and Buick (Cadillac is a better more prestigious premium brand). Not only that, but they should sell Saab. All they really need is Chevy to cover the bottom, Cadillac to cover the luxury, and and iconic brand that garners a lot of attention (Hummer).

Why should they keep Hummer if no one is buying them and they are despised by 90% of the population? It's bad PR that a few sales, at a loss, do not justify.

The article fails to mention that GM will build a new plant in Lordstown, OH to build the new car and the Volt, which has production go-ahead.

Now, I'll be the last to defend GM. They should focus on improving MPGs in their existing cars and continuing to improve quality. Unfortunately, GM does not know how to develop a brand for cars. They're starting, but cannibalizing the Cobalt is stupid. Instead, they should keep the name and re-design the car into a world-class compact to compete with the Corolla and Civic. All GM and Ford know how to do is develop a model and run it into the ground (Cobalt, Focus). Here we are with record high gas prices and Ford is selling a 10 year old design, that sucks. In the meantime, Honda, Toyota and Nissan have rolled out all-new competitors.

And Chrysler doesn't even have a compact car. I think they will be out of business soon.

LM has said it all. When will they finally wake up. The cobalt is a good seller for them...just redesign it and give it a better mpg. Is it any wonder that Honda is now #3 and closing in on GM each month.

GM small car history: Corvair, Vega, Chevette, Prism, Saturn, Cavalier, Cobalt, Aveo (and I'm sure I omitted a few). GM has a credibility gap regarding staying power to sustain a small auto model. GM should choose a small car model and stick with it. Take a lesson from the Corolla and Civic.

YAYYYYYYYYYY WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! FINALLY, THE HUMMER IS GOING EXTINCT!!! next on the chopping block hopefully, will be the denali, the escalade and the FJ cruiser.

The Hummer is dead in the water. GM is a deer staring into the headlights of an speeding Hummer, caught in moment of not knowing what to do while it's former customers are buying up Honda's, Toyota's, Nissan's, and even Hyundai's. The Hummer was a fad that no longer has a place in today's market with rising gas prices. GM's bean counters knew the Hummer provided the biggest profit margin compared to building a decent fuel economy car. The Cobalt and Aveo has never been able to compete with the Corolla, Civic, Sentra, or Elantra. GM continues to drive itself down the toilet, taking it's employees with them.

I agree with everything everyone's said here, but Hummer is more iconic than Saturn. I'm not a defender of Hummer, but wouldn't it be bad PR to kill Hummer? I think they should consolidate all of their mainstream brands into Chevy, before even considering killing Hummer. They need to make a H4 and a H5. A H4 could be the size of the Escape and a H5 the size of the first gen xB. Those would probably be very popular smallish SUVs. The only reason I think they should keep the brand is because I think they could make a resurgence in the market like mini did, if they come out with some unique products (You've got to admit a tiny H5 would be a real head-turner).

I personal think GM can make hummer very appealing even with high gas prices.
1. Hybrid version
2. 4.5L clean diesel engine
3. six speed transmission
4. stop and go technology
5. cylinder deactivation
6. redesign H2 for 2009 or 2010, make it 400 to 600 pound light and reduce the drag at least by 25%.
7. Hybrid version with 3.6L engine

sam, I like numbers 2,3,4,and 5. Hybrids don't "fit" the brand and consumers probably wouldn't buy a Hummer hybrid. Also if the Tahoe hybrid is any indication, a hybrid likely won't help hummer. Smaller vehicles like a H4 or H5 would definitely save the brand. Another thing that Hummer "could" do is a crossover. I know that doesn't "fit" the brand either, but if Land Rover is gonna build one why not hummer? They could call it HX3 or something (x for crossover). Maybe if those smaller cars take-off (H4 and H5) they could kill the H2. The H2 is the Hummer that has the worst reputation for being a wasteful gas hog, so if it's not needed they could kill it. These changes likely won't "change" Hummer's image, but improve it (and sales too).

I agree that hybrid does not fit the brand image but one thing we all need to understand that hybrid is the future (till fuel cell makes it way to production). Tahoe hybrid is great SUV. Reason its not doing so well is no trim choices for the customer. The minute, GM starts to offer Tahoe and Yukon hybrid below $40000. Gm should not have any problem sell over 40000 Tahoe and Yukon hybrid yearly.

for compact car, GM should simply re-badge Suzuki swift and start selling in NA market. Suzuki swift is a super fuel efficient , and fun to drive car. It will like hot cakes.

I don't think that suzuki's mini-cars would work in the US market. They are too small for most fat Americans and probably aren't powerful enough to propel 2 or more 200+lb people

yaris, fit, and even smart is flying of the dealerships. so why can't GM sell sub-compact. What GM needs to understand that they must offer all sort of car.

Mini-cars are different from subcompacts. They're smaller...

gm should not get rid of the hummer brand, but they need to revise it. kill the h2, either kill the h3 or make it more fuel efficent. a xb type hummer or small suv would sell well. gm has bigger problems than hummer.

I would do the following.
1.Kill Buick, why do u need it? the only one worth owning is the enclave, but an outlook or a acadia could fill the void.
2. Continue to build cadillac. Good job with the cts, now thats modernize the whole lineup. Re-do, kill the dtx, srx get a redesign, escallide stays
2.kill gmc, what the point, re badeged cars! give cadillac the acadia or a variation of it.
3. Really invest in saturn. stop giving us opals. Saturn can be very good, and they have made progress, but they need more.
4. Redo the chevy lineup. Glad to see the aveo gets a re designed coming, and a new compact car would be welcome. They need a civic and corolla killer, or at the least a competive entry in this segment. KIll the trailblazer, which i think they will do. The Malibu is a winner! can we kill the impala? makes sense to me. Kill the HHR too, i dont see the point. Either kill the cobalt or make it worth while. Hurry and get the camaro out! Corvette stays of course. Kill the Avalache and colorado. Uplander is killed already or in the process, so good step. Kill the Equinox. Tahoe and Subaran say, there wil be a market for these always.

5) im torn on ponticac. The vibe is good (i think). kill the grand prix last year. g5 is pointles. solatice is a good concept but needs a re-do but dont kill it. The g-8 is a very good car for the money, but they need a whole lineup of g8. Does anyone really care about torrent suv?

6) i really believe that gm should sell saab. gm needs to be a leaner, more efficent compnay and saab could get them some need cash and free resouces for other changes.

i believe that while gm is better positioned them ford to regain share in teh market, they need an outsider to finish the job. At the same time, they need to accept the fact that toyota, honda, and maybe others are going to be bigger, but gm has a future, and it could be very bright

Alex, almost everything you said I already expressed in a previous post above. But I think they should kill Saturn because they only need one mainstream brand (besides the new malibu is spanking the aura in sales). Everything pontiac has can be consolidated into chevy (kill the Impala and make the G8 the new fullsize), and I don't know if you knew this Alex, but the Vibe is just a badge engineered Toyota Matrix. Anyway thanks for chiming in with your opinion. :)

cj, i was fully aware that the vibe and matrix are clones. Basically we do agree on the general idea of a gm turnaround except u want to kill more than i do. basically gm is too bloated, and your idea on making the g8 the only full size makes sense.

^Yeah, my plan would make GM look more like Toyota, but that's not a bad thing considering Toyota's 3 brands are outselling GM's 8. But why do you feel they need to keep Saturn? I don't even know where Saturn "fits" in GM's lineup. Is it above, below, or equal to Chevy? You never want to have conundrums like that because that makes a huge marketing headache. So killing brands that overlap (because price or models) makes sense to me. I know this likely won't happen because of dealer network opposition, but this is what I think GM needs to do to be more competitive.

What will all the so called Real American's going to drive if Hummer is gone? The Sean Hannity real American Republicans will have nothing to drive.

Remember they still sell more GMCs than any other brand beside Chevy. And those are just trucks!

Although Pontiac will probably pass GMC soon.

Dave, I still don't know why GM needs to be this bloated, anyway. The Silverado outsells the sierra, the malibu outsells the aura, and the Tahoe outsells the Yukon. What's the point of all the other brands? If they consolidate all there products into chevy and remove the products that overlap (trailblazer, equinox, Traverse), chevy will be in a better place to compete. All they need is a compact CUV and the Vue should fit the bill. Consolidation is going to make it cheaper for GM to operate and easier for consumers to choose (Acadia vs Enclave vs Outlook vs Traverse won't even be a question anymore).

Why are we blaming GM for it's shortcomings? It's OUR fault... GM only built what we wanted. Now, we're the ones who are caught with empty gas tanks and we're blaming a company for building what we wanted?

Step 1. Take responsibility for our actions.

Step 2. Give auto companies time to catch up from dragging thier feet while the forward thinking competitors soak up the profits

Step 3. Learn from all of this.

^That's just stupid. Stop giving GM excuses.

Everyone has overlooked what is really going on with GM and that is they are desperately trying to pare down their North American operations. GM continues to lose money here primarily due to the union and its high priced hourly rates and often unfair demands.

Hummer is not the truck it once was and rising gas prices have all but killed sales, therefore GM will try to sell it because it is far too costly to just close a division (lessons learned from Oldsmobile).

As for the rest of the divisions, GM has said it will keep them for now, but I just don't see the point in Saturn, this brand will take too long to establish a much needed mindset.

GM still has too many overlapping vehicles within the company, each division (with the exception of Chevy) should have no more than 3 or 4 vehicles.

GM is doing well in China and trying to expand in India (cheap labor), those are the 2 markets they are focusing on right now. The rest of the world (with the exception of Saudi Arabia and Dubai) don't want fuel sucking vehicles...

bye bye Hummer!

Kill Saturn? I think besides Chevy that is GM's best brand. They have done more with less than their other divisions. Saturns offer excellent customer service and no haggle pricing. Plus for those that like euro styled cars without the hefty price tag can look at a Saturn. Plus the perception of Saturn being "green" is a great thing for GM. They just need to put more $ into them. Imagine euro styled cars with better reliabilty and more enviroment friendly. With the intro of the "mild hybrid" GM could be moving toward that. Lets give em a chance...

^T, Saturn sales were down 32% in May. Saturn has an all new lineup and there still hurting. Saturn need to go.

Prizm is Corolla, Metro is Swift, Aveo is a Daewoo in disguise.

GM's small cars? Jokes only.

I have invented a way to make small cars much safer in collisions.
It will take small cars to reach 100 mpg. Low car weight (or mass) is the most important requirement for improvement in fuel economy. An electric car, a hybrid car, or a hydrogen car will be more fuel efficient if they are lighter. Light weight is dangerous in collisions unless crumple zones for the rear and side of a vehicle are provided.
Please see my website www.safersmallcars.com
If you like the idea, please tell the car companies. At this time they have rejected my idea.

Shopa, please stop. Your idea is stupid, and I'm tired of you polluting cars.com with promos for your website.

J, what about the Cobalt, Vibe, & Astra? Those aren't small enough?

The Vibe is a Toyo Matrix in disguise and the Astra is an Opel (GM Euro). So in America, GM's small car history is sort of a joke Bloke (wow that rhymed). :D

Bloke just craves a time to get me back when he/she has not yet reply the same chassis comment about the past 2 generation Civic.

Cobalt is another joke from GM. Vibe is the same as Matrix. Astra? Overpriced Opel shipped from Belgium with interior covered in plastic.

So what if it is a Matrix in disguise? Maybe the Matrix is a Vibe in disguise? And if GM owns Opel why doesn't it count? If it's a joke, I'm not sure what makes it that way Cj...

J, please tell me where that comment is. And you still can write a sentence in anything but caveman huh?

This is going to sound like I'm defending GM- Trust me I'm not. I agree with some of the postings, but think alot of the people commenting here are a little off base. Sam is right, there are so many SUV's because of Americans are hedonistic and bought them in droves- it was only a few years ago that the companies with all the small cars were doing anything that they could to get a big 3 row suv in their lineup.

Further more, GM does have small fuel efficient cars in their lineup. Sure they have some big guzzlers, but again, almost all automakers have some. And now that people actually are buying small cars, they will surely build more (and that doesn't just happen overnight).

I think it is a good idea to get rid of Hummer- let someone else deal with it, or just let it die. They can't be that damn iconic- how long have they even been around (besides the original) 8 years?

Broq

Bloke is right. Rebranding the Astra is smart business. And, the Vibe is no different for GM than the Matrix is for Toyota, from a marketing perspective, which from what I can interpret from your choice of using the word "joke." Maybe a more descriptive word will help get your point across.

Although the Cobalt needs a redesign, it's a decent seller. No companies lead in sales in every segment.

I can't comment on the Aveo. It could use a makeover. Most automakers sales are down with most of their lineup. You all should consider comparisons to VW, Mazda, Nissan, Kia, and Hyandai. That would be something different and worth reading.

Bloke stop being stupid, everyone knows the Vibe is on a corolla platform and is a sad pontiac rebadge of the matrix. The reason I discount the Astra because that's not a GM America product. Opel has always had small stylish compact vehicles. Opel actually hasn't changed much in it's almost 110 year history. GM on the other hand has been relying on Tahoes and Silveradoes for their sales and profit. They threw out the cobalt just to fill a market segment, and if you have ever been in one, you can see the whole thing was just an afterthought. Yes I contend that GM's current small car offerings are a joke Bloke.

Cj, oh that's right because you would naturally only count certain offerings from a car company when evaluating their market position. I think the Cobalt was not necessarily thrown out there, any more than the focus or caliber, or even a civic was. How long did they make the Cavalier, or the Citation before that? The name doesn't matter. That is fine that you contend that if it's a joke, but since GM has a long history of cutting models that don't sell why is it a joke? Just because you don't like it? I am not even saying it is of the same quality as a Civic, but there are a ton of them on the road. I think it is a just a matter of you get what you pay for, that is the lesson of the day Cj.

Bloke, most of the cobalts you see on the road are from rental agencies. GM sell most Cobalts to rental fleets. The Focus may have been thrown on the market, too, but at least Ford gave it a somewhat desirable feature that the others don't have (sync). Ford also doesn't sell as many of the new Focuses to fleets. The Civic has never been an afterthought for Honda, because it's one of their bread and butter products. They would never just toss one in the market without any effort, because then sales would flop big time. GM OTOH has always relied on trucks, so (before now) they could care less about small cars.

Cj, I assure you all those Cobalts are not rental cars. That may be sales from rental fleets, but whatever, they are in demand. And I don't think the Cobalt was an afterthought. Just because it does not give the largest profit margin does not mean it was an afterthought. I give you something like the Cadillac version of a Cavalier (back in the 80's) could have been an afterthought, but the mainstream Chevrolet version is what it is, transportation on a budget. And yeah sync is okay, but I would rather have the mileage of the Cobalt.

Bloke, the new Focus gets better gas mileage than the Cobalt. Please do your research before making blind post like that. Besides if you really wanted mileage the Civic would be the car to get, there's a reason it's the #1 selling vehicle in the US. Another question. Have you ever been in the Cobalt and compared it to the Focus and Civic? The Cobalt looks (screams!) cheap rental car. It's almost sad that Ford has put out a better compact than GM.

The cobalt may not be the best small car right now, but it is also at the end of its cycle, and still doing pretty good.

GM small cars:
Cobalt (G5)
HHR
Aveo
Astra
Vibe (matrix)

Toyota small cars:
Yaris (xd)
corrola (Xb & Matrix)

so, its not like the competition has tons and tons of small cars either. I ddn't include TC and Sky/Solstice because they are sports minded.

^The only reason has more small cars is because they have more brands. To get a real idea of the amount of small cars GM has compared to the competition you should make a proportional percentage of all GM's vehicles to small cars.

I just did a some calculations on GM's small car offerings. Only 8.8% of all GM vehicles are compacts. Compare that with 25.8% of Toyota's vehicles being compacts (that includes Scion and Lexus), and 28.6% of Honda's vehicles being compacts.

Cj, are you saying compare models or sales? And for what reason?

Models

The only reason I did it was because "unnamed commenter" was saying that GM had more small cars than Toyota when proportionately that's not the case.

Cj, sorry I didn't see your post above, but the new Focus does not get better gas mileage than the Cobalt XFE. It has the highest mileage rating for it's class. Here's the story:

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/04/cobalt-xfe.html

Yeah, blind post. Your subjective opinion says nothing. There are many people out there who think the Cobalt is better than the Focus, I am not one of them, but so what. You said it was a "joke", again what is the "joke" about it?

Cj, Where did the above poster say:

"...that GM had more small cars than Toyota when proportionately"? Maybe you should re-read it.

Bloke, The Cobalt XFE gets the same gas mileage as a Civic
(nothing special) so GM just caught up to the competition. Concerning unnamed commenter he was trying to prove that GM had more small cars than toyota. What I said was if you look at the size of GM (models) and Toyota you'll see that GM has 3x as many models. So to really see how many compact cars a company has the only fair way to compare is percentages. That way you're comparing apples to apples and not apples to oranges. With my calculations it shows that toyota and honda both have over 3x as many compact vehicles (percentage-wise) than GM. That was my point.

Wait a minute you just told me to get a Civic if I want mileage, now it is nothing special to be at the top of the class? Especially in gas mileage with the price of gas right now? Yeah, right. Also I see the EPA rating of the Civic as 34 highway and the Cobalt as 36, where do you get them coming out as the same (Blind post maybe)? And I don't read the unnamed post as saying that GM has more small cars. I think he was saying that GM's small cars, including the Cobalt are not that bad. I also don't see what point you make, who cares how many models a company has if they don't sell as many as another. And please answer the question, why is the Cobalt a joke?

Bloke I'm tired of your stupid blind post go to Honda's website yourself and stop making yourself look like a fool. The Civic gets 36 hwy mpg. I don't even get this comment you just made:

"I also don't see what point you make, who cares how many models a company has if they don't sell as many as another."

The Civic by itself handily outsells all of GM's compact offerings combined. Now that's sad. The Cobalt is just another sorry attempt from GM, actually I can't even call the Cobalt an attempt because it's obvious Chevy didn't try (or care for that matter). Let's just hope the next compact offering is at least competitive with today competition, but as you should know Toyota and Honda are not standing still. Likely the next gen Civic will have 40+ mpg hwy and have 150+hp, and sell even better than the current gen (which is breaking records every month).

For someone has to insult someone else for "caveman" comment while not actually providing any rebuttal, why do I even bother to waste my time on it?

Like I said, the Cobalt is junk, Vibe is borrowed from Corolla/Matrix, and don't even get started on the lame Ion. Then again, WTF is the G5?

Cj, alright I'll give you that one, the Civic gets 36. But to be at the top that says something, no matter what. Don't give me the BS that all of a sudden it means nothing.

And you know exactly what I mean. It is not the number of models a company has, it is how many they sell. I am not trying to say that a Cobalt is as good as a Civic, but by no means is it a joke.

J, what's the matter little fella, why wait till now to say something? You are way late and you have nothing, you let the other guy do all the talking.

Cj and J, (and anyone else who is actually still looking)

Just so someone says I am not looking at all, the Corolla gets 37 highway with a manual. As far as the EPA says that is tops on the highway for a non-hybrid running on regular.

And Cj don't give me that looking a fool business, you were the one who said a Focus gets the better mileage, oh no, the blind post!! That was a joke, honestly.

As far as I'm concerned, the American manufacturers dropped the ball a long time ago. While they were basking in profits from the big trucks and truck-based SUVs, they should have been investing in R&D for the future. Future equals safe, reliable, fuel efficient vehicles. The Civic and Corolla have been icons...why don't we have an US manufacturer-made equivalent? There is no excuse, other than greed, greed, and more greed. The current offerings are crap.

And they are paying dearly for it now.

Deservedly. My condolences to all employed by the US auto industry.

Bloke, the manual Cobalt gets 36 hwy mpg, but the auto gets 31 hwy mpg. Because most Americans buy auto transmissions (95% or something), it would be a better comparison (and likely what more valid) to compare vehicle's auto transmission mpg:
Cobalt-31 hwy
Focus-33 hwy
Civic-36 hwy
Corolla-35 hwy
The corolla does not get 37 hwy mpg, it only gets up to 35 hwy mpg. I don't know where you're getting all your false info from, but it's almost pathetic, Just go to Toyota's website yourself and see. When I said the Focus got better mpg than the Cobalt I was talking about the regular Cobalt. Comparing it with the XFE, is like comparing a Civic Si with a Cobalt IMO. Why are you so desperate to be right anyway? It's almost pathetic, actually it's sad. Just admit that your wrong and the Cobalt's inferior.

Cj, I gave you credit before, but now I just think you are being ignorant. Go the EPA website, they are the ones that do the test and publish the mileage data. Do you understand sources of authority? Also, don't try and cop out now and tell me that we should consider automatics. Futhermore, comparing the Focus to a Cobalt XFE is like comparing a Cobalt to a Civic Si? Now that is just silly, you're reaching. The Cobalt XFE does not have a special engine, nor does it run on premium. It is priced like the regular Cobalt. It is like comparing a Focus S to a, well, Cobalt XFE. Would have considered the Honda HX or VX to be a different car? I doubt it, you'd probably say it was just a trim level that got better gas mileage. And finally, I will admit that the Cobalt is inferior, if you would read (Come on it is not that hard) I said the Cobalt is not as good as the Civic, or maybe even the Focus. But you said it was a joke, that is where the whole discussion began remember, I don't think it is a joke. You are getting tired I can tell. Let me know when you want to stop.

The Si is a trim level of the Civic that has 197 hp. The XFE is a trim of the Cobalt that 36 hwy mpg. Both are only optional with one transmission and both are made to fulfill a specific purpose better than their base model equivalents. What's wrong with my comment? I just said it's sort of unfair to compare a special trim of one model to the base trim of another. Just because the Focus doesn't have a fuel economy trim doesn't mean the Focus inferior. The base auto Focus has better gas mileage than the base auto Cobalt. In the same way, it'd be wrong to compare a 197 hp Civic Si with a 148 hp base Cobalt. Anyway, I don't think the Cobalt's special eXtra Fuel Economy package is all that impressive. It only matches the Civic in hwy mpg and can't even trump the Corolla in city mileage. If it is a supposed eXtra Fuel Economy package why doesn't it trump the competition vs barely matching it? Even though you keep complaining that I haven't told you why the Cobalt is a joke, likewise, you haven't told me why it isn't.

Your comment is no good because the Civic Si is drastically different than a Civic EX, LX, or DX. You know that, come on. You were comparing the Focus and the Cobalt, too. You just tried to make an analogy, which wasn't a good one. The XFE is the base model in the Cobalt lineup, just like the HX was for the Civic before. And yet again we weren't talking about automatics and you know that.

Further, why does the XFE model have to trump the competition when it costs less? And how do you barely match a number? 36=36 right?

I told you more than once that the Cobalt sells and is in demand. That is why it isn't a joke, read much?

When you have to say something like this "Why are you so desperate to be right anyway? It's almost pathetic, actually it's sad. Just admit that your wrong and the Cobalt's inferior." And yet you respond, does it make you sad? Or just pathetic?

Bloke, it barely matches the mileage numbers because the Corolla gets 27 mpg city and the XFE only gets 25 mpg city. What makes the Si different from the XFE? Honda and Chevy market both as trims not as entirely different models, meaning my argument (analogy) still stands. The Si is a trim just as much as the XFE is a trim. The XFE is NOT the base model for the Cobalt either. The XFE only comes in manual tranny and has no optional auto. The base Cobalt has an auto tranny. Bloke, please don't misinterpret the Cobalts sales. The Cobalt is GM's only compact sedan that is sold to fleets meaning a LOT of Cobalts are sold to fleets. Guess where the high demands for Cobalts comes? Rental fleets. What are rental fleets going to do now that Ford is selling them less Focuses? Buy more Cobalts. That is what bloats the Cobalts sales figures. Honda sells near 0 civics to fleets, and if fleets want a civic they have to pay full price at a dealer. GM OTOH gives the Cobalt away for almost nothing (probably because that's all it's worth, LOL) to fleets. Most consumers that actually pay money for Cobalts are probably loyal GM diehards or something. If GM can't even convince regular consumers that the Cobalt is worth a look and if the competition is stomping all over them (in sales, image, perception, and quality) it qualifies in my book as a joke. The Cobalt is a sad one too because even the lowly Focus is stomping all over it.

Cj, come on. You can say all the subjective stuff you want, but you still haven't said anything new. The Cobalt sells, GM does not give it away, you know that. And so what if they sell to fleets are they not sales? Would the company keep making them if it didn't make any money off the deal? And I know GM may not be that profitable right now, but that is not because they make the Cobalt, you know that too. Here is the story from this website on the base model:

"The XFE replaces the base offering in both coupe and sedan versions of the LS and LT1 trim packages. Prices still start at $14,885." I'll post the link for you again, since you didn't read it the first time, you blind poster you (It's piling up now the focus comment, the Corolla mileage, now the Cobalt info, please just stop and look).

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/04/cobalt-xfe.html

And if you want to talk numbers and sales margins give numbers with links to where you get the information from, otherwise, like your posts above, you have nothing.

How is the Corolla mileage blind? It's obvious you didn't go to Toyota's website like I told you to. Here I'll make easy for you:
http://www.toyota.com/corolla/specs.html
What was wrong with the Focus comments? Here's a link from Ford's website, that shows the Focus has better gas mileage than a regular Cobalt:
http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/focus/compare/details/?vehicles=22704|22244|22783|22869
What Cobalt info was false? It's obvious GM sells TONS of Cobalts to fleets (unless you're in denial about that too). GM even knows the Cobalt is a bad compact sedan. That's why this article said GM was going to kill it and make something new and more competitive. I don't know why your defending dead wood.

Cj, here goes:

1. "The corolla does not get 37 hwy mpg, it only gets up to 35 hwy mpg." You were looking at the 2009 model EPA estimate, I was talking about the 2008. It is 2008 right? Check it out on the EPA website ( http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/ ), that is the source of authority, you do understand what that means right?

2. "Bloke, the new Focus gets better gas mileage than the Cobalt. Please do your research before making blind post like that." Again go to the EPA website, the Cobalt gets 36 highway and 25 city, it is better than the Focus's 24/35.

3. "The XFE is NOT the base model for the Cobalt either. The XFE only comes in manual tranny and has no optional auto. The base Cobalt has an auto tranny. Bloke, please don't misinterpret the Cobalts sales." And yet I even quoted the story from this website that says it is the new base model. Are you saying that the story is wrong?

And GM is going to kill it huh? Is that any different that what Ford or Dodge does when they re-name a car and get a different platform? I really do hope the next one is more competitive, but it isn't like the car doesn't sell. I don't know why you are still posting.

Cj, here goes:

1. "The corolla does not get 37 hwy mpg, it only gets up to 35 hwy mpg." You were looking at the 2009 model EPA estimate, I was talking about the 2008. It is 2008 right? Check it out on the EPA website ( http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/ ), that is the source of authority, you do understand what that means right?

2. "Bloke, the new Focus gets better gas mileage than the Cobalt. Please do your research before making blind post like that." Again go to the EPA website, the Cobalt gets 36 highway and 25 city, it is better than the Focus's 24/35.

3. "The XFE is NOT the base model for the Cobalt either. The XFE only comes in manual tranny and has no optional auto. The base Cobalt has an auto tranny. Bloke, please don't misinterpret the Cobalts sales." And yet I even quoted the story from this website that says it is the new base model. Are you saying that the story is wrong?

And GM is going to kill it huh? Is that any different that what Ford or Dodge does when they re-name a car and get a different platform? I really do hope the next one is more competitive, but it isn't like the car doesn't sell. I don't know why you are still posting.

Bloke, stop being an absolute idiot. At least admit you were wrong on the Corollas mileage. The 2009 has been on sales for a few months, so don't use the 2008's mileage to prove a point. Don't compare the XFE to the regular Focus, that's just stupid. It'd be different if Chevy replaced the 2008 Cobalt and came out with a 2009 with 36 hwy mpg, but they didn't. They came out with a new trim called XFE. The Cobalt name is going to be axed because of it's bad image and replaced with something else. New platform, new engine, new model. There will not be a new Cobalt. The Cobalt is going to die (actually it's already dead IMO).

Cj, I know you are a tough guy and all, but you can make mistakes, it is okay. Just don't trust manufacturer websites for everything, they are not neutral. The Corolla mileage is what it is, did you check the site, am I wrong? Do you think there are not any 2008's for sale? And what about the story posted above? Did you even read it? I never said they will make a new Cobalt, but when it doesn't sell as well as a Civic you will say it is a joke too eventhough thousands of people disagree with you. Don't be a brick, just get educated, that's all.

How about you get educated, Bloke. I thought we were comparing the current competition of the Cobalt? The 2009 Corolla has been on sale for awhile, and I don't know how you could have missed it unless you lived in a cave. Do live in a cave? Anyway if you want to discount the 09 Corolla like that, why don't we just discount the Cobalt XFE, also. That means the compact Cobalt gets the same hwy fuel economy as the fullsize Accord. Hey, and the Accord has 42 more horsepower and way more space. I don't mean to be sarcastic or anything, but your logic baffles me, Bloke. Just end now, before you say something even more mindless than everything else you've said.

Cj, obvioulsy you are superior because only someone with a big brain could have thought of an ingenious comeback like that. How long has the 09 Corolla been on sale? And what do you think Toyota has sold more of this year 08's or 09's? And how am I discounting the Corolla? What is mindless about comparing the base model Cobalt with a base model Focus? Someone is starting to sound a little crazy, yikes...

Where do you get a fullsize Accord getting the same highway mileage as a Cobalt? Oh you mean the "regular" one, which one is that exactly? I have heard logic can baffle someone who only uses limited resources to try to make a point. And that is fine that you don't mean to be sarcastic, when you don't have anything intelligent to say I guess that is just how it sounds.

My Accord comment compared the automatics. The XFE is not available with an automatic transmission, anyway. The automatic Cobalt gets the same hwy gas mileage as the bigger, heavier, more powerful Honda Accord. That is pathetic. Why didn't GM have the technology to get more gas mileage out of the Cobalts automatic transmission? Anyway I have an even more valid question for you, Bloke. Why do you have to try to slam my intelligence when I've proved you wrong more than once in this thread? My advice to you is to go back to your cave.

Cj, I said you were correct about the Civic mileage. Where else did you prove me wrong? And look up, you were the first to call other people on this post "stupid". You can dish, but can't take it.

And you are changing the argument, we were not talking about auto's, don't try and change the subject now. Seriously get an original response.

Sorry for the delayed response, Bloke. I was at a company baseball game and just got home. Anyway, I wasn't trying to change the subject to auto tranny's, I was just making a comparison of the non-XFE Cobalt and the Accord. If you don't believe it I'm sure you are capable of going to both Honda's and Chevy's websites to see for yourself. The XFE is only available in manual tranny, the regular one is only available in automatic.

Will you two just shut up already?

It's not even a civil discussion, you're just going back and forth with personal attacks and a bunch of infomation you both have stated at least 5 times each.

Let's put something into perspective; you are arguing about GAS MILEAGE! It's not even anything constructive anymore. It's GAS MILEAGE. It's people like you that keep this country from getting anywhere. You just argue and argue and do nothing. Hmm, sounds like the Liberal Congress.

AV, if you don't like it, don't read it. Until the moderator tells us to stop, we're doing just fine. And isn't gas mileage a very important topic right now?

How are we supposed to get something done, do you think once we are done with this blog we will go out and cure a disease or solve the energy crisis? I assure you, neither of us will be running this country any time soon, so don't worry about it.

Cj, I totally believe what you are saying about the Accord and the automatic Cobalt. I don't think that someone with the money or the desire to purchase an Accord will want a Cobalt. That is fine. But that has nothing to do with what we were talking about before. You said you proved me wrong, I don't see where, except for the aforementioned mileage of the Civic.

Bloke, initially you claimed that maybe the Matrix was a rebadged Vibe, which you posted blindly. I told you the Vibe was on a Corolla platform. You claimed that the Corolla got 37 hwy, when it only gets 35. You acted like there were tons of people waiting in line to buy Cobalts when that's not happening. I told you that a lot get sold to rental fleets. Then you said maybe GM's not killing it but replacing it in the same way Ford and Chrysler replace their models, when the article says GM is killing the Cobalt and making an entirely new compact. Bloke stop acting like your intelligent, when you're not. You're a blind asinine hypocrite that's defending a product you don't even believe in. Numerous times you said that you knew the Cobalt was inferior to the Civic and Corolla yet you insisted on defending it. No one (not even the people that made it) believes the Cobalt is a worthy competitor in the compact sedan segment. The XFE is all marketing BS by chevy. They know no one is going to buy it because it uses a manual tranny, but they'll slap up on billboards and ads that the Cobalt gets up to 36 mpg hwy. What a shame that chevy has to resort to lame marketing attempts like that to sell a vehicle to the buying public. They just made a trim that they can advertise for the next few years before they kill the model altogether. Anyway to be honest I'm with AV. We need to end this because no matter the amount of debate and argument, we likely won't ever be on the same page. I think the Cobalt (and some other GM products) are a joke, you, on the other hand, don't mind wasting your time defending them (quite badly, too). One last thing, I just want to remind you that I WASN'T THE ONE THAT STARTED THIS!

Wow, I must have read the longest Internet Op Ed piece by CJ and Bloke. I wonder if any of you two are really a certain blogger by the initials AR in disguise, that dude’s infamous for these arguments. So it seems we went from Import versus Domestics to gas misers versus gas guzzlers or in this case, gas miser versus even more gas miser; arguing over 1 highway gallon is truly pathetic. It does not serve any purpose and detracts from the original posting by Dave Thomas. So guys, save your fingers, exchange numbers and talk this over the phone.

Back to the topic at hand. Do I think it’s time for the Hummer to go away? Yes, if it’s going to be powered by gasoline, but GM should hang onto it should future technologies allow for it to come back to life and roam the earth or whatever planet we’ll be living on later this century. Hummers are truly “Like Nothing Else”. Meaning, they should NOT be made into some puny crossover with a macho image; that would be like Jeep going from Trail Rate Wrangler Rubicons to a full line of Compasses. You ruin the image and it’ll be a hard sell later on. It’s better to fold now and comeback strong when the timing is right.

Cj, my blunt minded not so friendly friend, I couldn't care less what you spout as fact, because not only have you been wrong on more than one occasion, you don't back up your conjecture with any real sources. You say go to the manufacturer website, who links to the EPA info, so just go to the EPA website, you will see that you're statements are overbroad and uninformed.

GM is killing the Cobalt, what are they stabbing it till it doesn't move anymore? No, they are doing what any other car company does, they start over, like I said. I guess it isn't that you don't read, it is just that you can't comprehend. I'll try and make it clearer for you next time.

Why can't a product be inferior but still be in demand when it costs a lot less? The Ford Ranger is a good example, yes it is supposed to come to a close too, but how long did it hang on and how many will be sad to see it go? Should Ford just give up because Lexus makes better cars?

And of course the XFE is marketing, but the EPA gave it the rating, not Chevy. I support it because I like it, and would buy one if I had the money or the need. And so will others, they don't need to be standing in line to do that.

And yes Cj, you did start it, so don't cry, I can read in lower case or capital letters. I too agree with AV and Ken L. so just let me have the last word, huh? Please?

You and J started this and I chimed in, you dunce. I wasn't trying to start an argument with you, but prove a point, but you kept coming with BS, so I kept trying to correct you, but you wouldn't stop. Your big error is you keep looking at the wrong EPA numbers (either because you are looking at the wrong year or the wrong model). The only reason I tell you to go to the manufacturer's website for basic info, is to make it easier for your little mind to ascertain (Oops, I shouldn't have used such a big word. How about the word "grasp".). Why don't you believe that GM is going to kill the Cobalt? If it's not going to be remodeled, it's going to be replaced (Is that concept to hard for you to understand, Bloke? Maybe I should type in caveman so that you will understand [since it's evident you live in a cave]. "GM kills Cobalt. GM makes new model. Cobalt no more." Does that make more sense?) . The article said the new compact car IS NOT going to be the Cobalt, so why do you keep insisting that "there's a possibility that it could be the next Cobalt," the article contradicts you. Bloke, you're putting your supposed intelligence into question, by your baseless arguments and your mindless conclusions. Please, stop debating here, and go back to your cave (you will likely be more comfortable and welcome there).

Bloke, I'd like to say one more thing...SORRY. I came down a bit too hard on that last post (but what can I say I'm from NJ (: ). You seem like an OK guy, so I'd like to leave this post on a "happier" note, rather than slamming you.

Cj, that you for the apology, I don't want to leave you feeling too bad either, I know it leaves you in fits. But that is just what happens when someone spends all their time posting on a website.

You chimed alright, just like the annoying seatbelt reminder. With no more intelligence or insightful viewpoints. You have a hard time calling people names I can see that, you are really not any good at it. And it is pretty hard to win an argument by just saying the other guy is wrong, don't you think? No, I know you don't think so.

So a little more maybe? Did the EPA have the same numbers I quoted? Yeah, they did, you can say you're right that's fine (you and I will be the only ones who know you're not). What Chevy is saying about the Cobalt is exactly the same thing they said about the Cavalier when they "killed" it. They are replacing one small car with another, why don't you get that? When did I say there was a possibility that the new car would be the Cobalt? Making up stuff doesn't help you either, right Chunky Jones (I just made that one up, funny no?)? Oh wait, you don't get that either. I will stop debating when you are ready to stop. Sorry if this sound bad too, I don't mean to be insulting, your just so, well, simple.

I know your a nice guy, so I will stop if you will. I like folks from NJ, you're like my neighbor, I live in Philly.

Yay. They made up. Have a nice weekend guys.

Wow you live in Philly? No wonder we're both so harsh! LOL! Anyway it doesn't look like you accepted my apology, but I don't really care. I don't know why you're trying to act like your an intellect. I guess you didn't realize how many spelling errors you made in your last post. LOL! So anyway I'm done debating on this article. See you later...

Cj

Sounds good. I'll go see what you're up to on the other stories.

And really I am only trying to make sure you get it right, no hard feelings.

The Hummer should be mothballed, and I look forward to all those macho morons who've been guzzling around town in them being unable to find parts in a few years.

I find Hummers so irritating because so many of their owners are clearly motivated by the desire to look like soldiers in combat, while their purchase of these stupid vehicles just sends more young people off to kill and die for cheap oil. There are cheaper ways to come by the military look, like a pair of camouflage pants from the local army surplus store.

I've heard of a plan to remodel Hummer vehicles in order to make them more fuel-efficient. GM is workin' on something. Probably it's projected to take a long time so they don't know what to do with the brand yet.