Honda Saying Iie (No) to Plug-In Hybrids

Honda CEO Takeo Fukui said today that he doesn’t see any advantage to plug-in gasoline-electric hybrids like GM’s Chevy Volt concept. There has been widespread optimism about the powertrain, but detractors say plugging into already-stressed electric grids — which are often powered by coal-burning plants — is harmful. It seems Fukui agrees.

He said Honda is working on a hybrid-only family car for a 2009 launch. This is news to us. We had heard of a hybrid-only compact car, but a dedicated family car seems aimed directly at Toyota’s Prius. He also said the hybrid technology is getting cheaper and will be about a $1,750 premium versus a conventional gas-powered car. Surprisingly, most of the costs come from production, not the equipment in the hybrids. "Right now, the Civic Hybrid is pretty much hand-made," Fukui said.

So what will Honda develop to take the place of hybrids if it doesn’t go electric? The company is looking at hydrogen and has developed working prototypes (the FCX shown above), as well as home hydrogen station prototypes. Fukui says that in 10 years hydrogen will be closer to a mass-market reality, and obviously the company doesn’t think it needs a stop-gap like plug-ins.

Honda Sees Big Hybrid Volume Push With Next Model (Reuters via AutoblogGreen)

Comments

I agree, the plug-in idea is just another stupid marketing gimic from GM. I think it's exciting to see what Honda and Toyota will come out with in the next few years. Do you realize Toyota is already on it's 6th generation of hybrid development. That's amazing.

It's refreshing to see Japanese OEMs sniping at GM's plans to innovate rather than vice versa. If the Honda and Toyota execs are concerned enough about the Volt to lambast it publicly, GM might actually have a winning strategy on it hands.

I get the criticism of plug-in hybrids, but the current energy return of investment for hydrogen is something like 0.25. In other words producing a gallon of hydrogen requires as much energy as is contained in 4 gallons of hydrogen. That should decrease with technological advancements, but saying it will be nearly marketable in ten years sounds extremely optimistic.

Iie does not equal to dame, which means there is still a little bit of hope.

Now why in the world would any of you expect a company like Honda to come out with a cramped dedicated hybrid 2 door car, when they already know how successful the Prius became for Toyota? The Prius, a dedicated hybrid only 4 door car, gave Toyota a green image as well as a hybrid for families on a budget. Sorry, but 2 door dedicated hybrids are just a waste of money and development since the Civic Si is already frugal enough with fuel and fun enough to drive. Hybrids are no longer a science project to be experimented with on a compact 2 door car (i.e: Insight) due to its limited appeal.

I applaud Honda for skipping the plug in stop gap and concentrate fully on Hydrogen. I would love to see a mass market Hydrogen from Honda soon based on the futuristic looking FCX.

Having read the linked article, I think something was lost in the paraphrasing, if not the translation. All Fukui appears to say is that he's not sold on plug-in hybrids. He makes no mention of the Volt. Before there is a Volt there will be conventional parallel hybrids with larger batteries that can be charged. This is consistent with his comment about batteries.

His point is that any advantage of adding additional batteries to a parallel hybrid is taken against the weight those batteries add. The quote is: "I'm not sure what kind of real advantages they would have."

It's more likely that he sees Honda's money and resources better spent on conventional hybrids and developing a dedicated hydrogen vehicle cheap and durable enough for the mass market. Such a car will be much closer to the Volt than to any current or plug-in hybrid. The Volt itself will be a step in the direction of a fuel-cell-powered electric car. Honda is likely to forgo the onboard generator source.

LT is right that 10 years is as much a pipe dream now as it was five years ago, the first time I heard someone say hydrogen cars were 10 years out. The only way I can fathom it is if they're ungodly expensive or as heavily subsidized as early hybrids were -- and some still are.

I don't know how legit the issue of a stressed power grid is for a slow-rollout product that gets charged mostly overnight, off-peak. That can't be Fukui's argument. If anyone's reasoning for concentrating on hydrogen is that plug-ins will be charged with electric power from fossil fuels, then that, too, is misguided because hydrogen isn't a fuel. It's a means of transferring power, and the power needed to produce hydrogen gas comes from the same power plants.

Very well said Joe.

I think the Volt concept is a great idea. I hope when it makes production it meets all the promised numbers. It seems like to some whatever GM is doing must be evil and whatever Toyota/Honda does is the answer. I too am curious to see what Honda and Toyota come up with but you crap on the Volt before even comes out and the affects are seen. I was interested a while ago when there was an article by Honda on how they could make Ethanol from all kinds of vegetation waste instead of just corn. I wish I knew what happened to that technology since it seemed like a great idea! Could my compost pile help power my car?

As for the strain on the power grid from a concept like the Volt like others said this will be night time charging. In reality the car is more like another generation of a hybrid since it has as a gas motor if need be to charge the batteries but what is great is it only uses it if needed where as all current hybrids always turn it on for some portion of the drive. I was sad to see here in MA that the rich got their way on Cape Cod and defeated the plans for a wind farm. At first I thought a wind farm would ruin the views on Cape Cod but as I discovered driving the coast that has already been done by the rich with all their houses lining the shore where there were virtually no public parks...very sad. Another nice thing for those who will choose the Volt here in MA you do have choices to buy your power from environmentally friendly sources. You pay more but it your choice on how much more you want to buy from these sources. Enough people show they care and the more these sources of energy will grow. Worried about strain on the grid turn off your central air! Notice those are the days you see the most brown outs!

Many people don't get the fact that you vote with your dollar. What you buy tells companies what you want and what they are doing right. Reward those doing what you think is right and the others will have no choice but to follow suit or go out of business. Toyota's range of Hybrids they have now is proof of that, if no one bought a Prius they would not have bothered to expand their line. Honda giving up on the V6 Hybird Accord more proof.

Why don't we give the Volt a shot and if someone can come up with something better all the more power to them.

At the heart of the story is that Honda is saying there are no plans to develop a plug in hybrid for the future because they don't like the set-up. They figure either go hybrid or go fuel cell. Which isn't the dumbest idea.

Instead they're going to focus on hydrogen and in the gap build more efficient traditional (non plug-in) hybrids well down the road. Toyota is building a plug-in prius and testing it in Japan now and getting a lot of press for it, and this is clearly a dig at them.

The big news is still that they're looking at a family sedan type hybrid to compete with Prius. The no word on the sporty two door is distressing too.

Its OK if Honda wants to stick with regular Gasolene only Hybrids.

But they should realise these things
* Performance Hybrid with V6 / V8 engine like Accord-Hybrid will not sell
* 2-seater Coupe like Insight will not sell
* It should be a hatch/wagon since the space in the rear is fully utilized like Prius
* No extras like Monitor/Alloy wheels which bumps up the price and weight

Ideally they can design a vehicle which may fit just 4, but will give max mileage. The latest
Fit model with CVT (launched in Japan) seems to give 56 MPG, they can pretty well add a Hybrid to it and it may give 65 MPG. That will be awesome.

Another fact is Hydrogen is not going to be there soon. On the other hand, NGVs are becoming very popular. Already 7 million + NGV are there on Worlds roads.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/10/global-ngv-flee.html#more

I will be disappointed if the "hybrid family car" is just a hybrid version of the new Fit... (Hey, it has four doors, therefore, it's a family car, no?)

Didn't they say when they originally made the announcement some months ago that the new hybrid wouldn't be based on the _current_ Fit? Which sort of implies that it might be based on the new Fit...

Not here to defend or promote any car company...but Americans' memtality of "1 Pill Fits All" has clearly been demo'ed here. Battery operated technology has actually been used in Japan since early 90's, so GM's "Volt" is NOT a brand new innovation there per se. What GM does promise (and I applaud it) is the super long mileage the Volt should cover/charge. That was the biggest issue of battery operated vehicle - it's good for city use when you can get a recharge station, so you charge ur car @ home during night time, then go to work, park + charge ur car or share it with others, then recharge it when done (in the latter case, during night time). We, however, want something that is good for both city and rural use. That's why the Hybrid picture kick in with Toyota and Honda - the battery simply can't give long mileage or fast speed! Well, if Japan has spent so many years on this techology, and there's still no promise yet, what makes everyone thinks that GM, who started the program of battery car in early 2000's, then killed it, then restarted it again ~ 1.5 years ago, would suddenly come up with some magic battery that does it all? I hope the GM magic does appear, but not too optimistic 'bou it due to 2 things:
(1) Recent push back from Tesla is telling every one sthg 'bou the problem of pure battery operated car;
(2) Look @ your laptops or cell phone batteries. They are mostly from Japan companies, and are made in China. US simply doesn't have factory or company that have the capacity to master this technology and to put it in production;
(3) The most widely used battery currently is Li-on (Lithium ion battery). Even for small applications like cell phone and computer use, every single company is looking for batteries that can have a much longer operating time (current time is at max 3-4 hours of continuous use). If we have battery that can operate for an extensive period of time for a reasonable cost, then we should already be using or seeing it by now...
So be realisitic - it's a good thg for GM to invest on battery technology, but it's also a good thing for Honda to state the true facts on battery technology, just like when Nissan said that hybrid cars aren't cost-effective (for manufacturers or consumers).