Toyota Exec Admits Buyers Loathe Dealerships

A Toyota executive spoke to a group of industry leaders today and addressed something we’ve known for years: Car buyers dread going to the dealership. Jim Lentz, one of Toyota’s top sales execs in the U.S., said, “We have to improve, streamline and put the fun back into buying a car."

We’re not sure about the fun part, but making the buying process less painful is always welcome. It’s also interesting to note that internet word-of-mouth about Toyota dealers has never been stellar. Perhaps the folks at Toyota are reading internet message boards and getting the hint because — as Lentz pointed out — one buyer said she’d rather attend a funeral than do business at a dealership.

What would you change about the dealer experience to make it something everyone could look forward to?

Toyota's Lentz: Consumers Dread Car Shopping (The Detroit News)

Comments

In the instance of Toyota dealerships, how about a salesperson who gives a damn about anything? I've tried on three occasions to try and at least find out about Toyotas only to be ignored all together, or getting a salesperson who could really give flying fig whether you ever buy a Toyota. Needless to say, I don't own a Toyota.

Haha, I went and they showed me a "Camry". It was a Corolla. It was horrible. But our Toyota dealer is connected with a Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep dealership all owned by the same family who also owns a Ford/Mercury/Lincoln/Nissan dealer.

Maybe more informed sales people who have good personalities. Somebody who is going to make you want to buy the fully loaded stuff.

I think most dealerships do think about the consumer's perception of them. If its positive, it usually translates into sales and they want to sell as much as possible. The problem is they have high turnover of salesman. They keep moving from store to store for the best personal situation. They also need to be trained better before they throw them in the showroom.

I have my own little harrowing tale from a Toyota dealership. Back in 02 I was on the market for a new vehicle. I had a few in mind, most of which were Toyota vehicles. With my list of wants and needs in a vehicle and 3 models listed I saw an ad in the paper for at the time a new 4Runner SR5 for a really great price. I went to the dealership when they first opened on day 1 of the ad. I told the sales person the 3 models of vehicles I had in mind to test drive. The Highlander I was interested in the sales person said No I didn't want that. I asked why and he said its a womans car. Finding that statment to be rather stupid I moved on to the 4Runner I saw in the ad. He said he sold out. I asked how that was possible seeing as how it just went on sale today. He just simply stated he sold out and motioned over to a new 4Runner Limited that wasnt on sale. Obvious bait and switch, so I figured I may as well get a test drive in anyway and that may save me some time at the next dealership I go to. The test drive was fantastic and admittedly I was entranced by the vehicle. So curious to see the rates they would set me up with I asked the salesperson to start talking numbers and that I was a first time buyer. He said no problem but came back a few minutes later stating that he could not sell me the vehicle. Having the cash in the bank to buy the vehicle in full (no lie) and an offer to pay half on the vehicle right there I was perplexed. I asked if my credit was bad he said no. Then he acknowledged that I had the funds to buy the vehicle there but could not sell it to me. I wanted an explanation but he would not offer one. Then he said I could sell you a car from our used lot. I asked him promptly what he had been smoking and if he realized that he was about to lose out on a sale. ...Deer in headlights response. Needless to say I walked out. Probably should have spoken with the manager but seeing as how he probably highered the sales floor associate I would not imagine much progress there either.
Anyhow that night swearing off dealing with goofball sales people, I went to the Toyota website and selected a vehicle and built it online with everything I wanted in it and figured out the financing to boot. I printed it out and went to another dealership where a family member purchased a camry earlier and walked up the head associate of the sales floor. I promptly handed her the paper stating "I want this." and she looked at me puzzled. I thought to myself "not again" but then she said hold on a sec I might have it, I just want to make sure it has the package youre looking for. A few minutes later she pointed to the vehicle and I gave it a test drive. She then stated that she could do better than the web site's estimated apr with my first time buyer status. Within 30-40 minutes I was on the road. 5 years later my Toyota is paid off and is running flawlessly. I also have a great relationship with the maintenance facility there (oil changes and schedeuled maintenance). So I guess the moral of the story is just like a vehicle if you have a specific one in mind, shop around with the dealerships around your county. Its definitely worth your time. What also helps is doing plenty of research for the vehicle you have in mind online. It can save you time, haggling, and in the end money cause youre not pressured into making a quick decision on an accessory or add on you may be on the fence about.

I doesn't matter whether it's Toyota or any other manufacturer. In general people hate the car buying experience because most car salesmen are complete a**holes. They are out to take advantage of everyone that walks in the door because it means more money in their pocket. If you don't go in informed with regards to invoice pricing, dealer holdback, dealer incentives, and a fair market value for your trade - you're going to get ripped off. It seems that the more informed you are, the less they want to deal with you.

Russ,
Please do notice that dealerships are not running charity, they are running a business, and running a business means someone has to make money. :)

How about something from the Sales Consultant point of view. Yes, I do frequent cars.com. Some of us **s holes actually research vehicles and keep track of what is going on in the auto industry as well as our model line/s. Actually, most of us prefer an informed customer. We spend much less time with them b/c we don't have to explain everything about invoice, incentive, and holdback. They usually are in the ballpark and "negotiating" is minimal. Start to finish is quick. Granted, my comission is smaller, but I spent a minimal amount of time with that customer. Uninformed buyers on the other hand often don't believe the actual invoice even when they see it. Contrary to popular belief, we do not have multiple invoices for a vehicle in order to fool customers.

Yes, we are trying to make money on the sale. So does the sales consultant you talk to at most electronics stores. Have you ever tried to negotiate with them? In short, you can. Most people don't. Just think the electronics store made $500 profit on your $2,500 HDTV. While the car dealership made $500 profit on your $25,000 vehicle. I am not complaining, but too often the consumer feels that the dealer is making so much "hidden" money. Yes, that does exist from time to time. However, there is not $1,000's of room once you've seen the invoice.

There are a**holes in every line of work. We may have a higher percentage in car sales than does the general population, but I am not going to apologize for them. If you don't think you're being told truthful information go to a dealer that you feel comfortable at. Most of us in the business for any length of time rely on repeat and referral business in order to thrive. Lying and burying customers in a vehicle is usually a poor way of achieving that.

Let me ask all of you this. When you go to a car lot have you lied to the sales consultant about your motive, pricing, and or different dealer offers? If you are saying no. Thanks, you can read no further.
If you have said yes, why do you feel I should be honest with you. Though, I still will. At that point it's because I would like to take the higher road. Are you so afraid that you will be sold something if you told the truth? Trust me, we are not that slick that we are not going to sell you something you don't want to buy. I wish I was. I would've retired by now.

Ok, bring it on. I'm sure I'm gonna get a plethera of angry comments. It wouldn't be the first time I've been yelled at today.

I'm also a car salesman (GMC and Suzuki mainly). The thing that people don't realize is that shopping for cars can be as EASY or PAINFUL as YOU MAKE IT.

A lot of people tense up from the moment you say Hi to them because they are EXPECTING a difficult experience. Getting any kind of information from them as far as what they're looking for can be like pulling teeth.

Another large portion of people make things hard on themselves by being rude and sarcastic with the sales person from the get-go- No, that won't get you a better deal, it'll just get you an annoyed and rude sales person who's not going to want to fool with you any longer.

Toyota or not, soon as you think about going to the dealership JUST to LOOK at a car, someone will rush out there and annoy the crap out of you. If I want to buy I will wave or go inside and say "hey I want to buy a car".

I am a salesman. I preffer sales consultant. I like to last two comments posted by the fellow sales consultants. weather or not customers have a good or bad experience at a dealership usually depends on the customers themselves. They usually choose the hard way.

I tried to sell cars once. I'd love to take time and talk cars with customers,,, management disagreed however.

But now that I've worked both sides of the table I LOVE car shopping, because I know what to look for.

Some salespukes are under insane presure from management to do everything short of gnawing your leg off to make you leave with A car, ANY car.

Others are just disinterested, so just go straight to the sales manager, and ask HIM/HER to assist you.

I've had sales people fight over me because there "ups" system sucked.

I've had guys less knowledgeable on cars than on their shoes.

I've had old poker players, they always want to make a deal.

Sharks, lizards and monkeys, are usually just obnoxious and desperate. You TELL them what you want or get the sales manager.

If a sales person won't let you leave without checking with his manager, go straight to the manager and compliment the sales person (if you liked him) and tell him firmly you're just looking, thank you for your time, can I have a buisness card and I'll let you know.

And if you just want a test drive, tell them so, and keep it brief so they can get back to paying customers ASAP.

Having been through buying a car recently I have had experiences at both a Toyota and Chevy dealership. I honestly cannot believe the crap the Toyota dealership was pulling. Things like I cannot sell you this car for invoice because I would not make any profit....right. I cannot give you excellent trade in on your car even if it is in perfect condition, that is only for dealers....yeah right again. (He event put in the wrong lower end model in the system as he assured us he was not trying to cheat us.) Toyota's are just superior to everything else on the road...ok I think we have had enough.

I cannot believe there are still sales guys like this out there. We went to the Chevy dealer, got invoice on the car without any fight, did not get chased by a sales guy, got better then what edmund's excellent trade in value was and bought the car without any stress quickly.

I am personally one of those people who do like car shopping and have helped others with it but this experience was lousy and a primitive way of selling cars. Seeing this article about Toyota at least that admit there is a problem and are trying to do something about it. Having talked to many others who have shopped Toyota's specifically this is not an uncommon experience. Not saying other dealers cannot be bad but Toyota has a lot of room for improvement in this area, I hope management have some success reworking this area.

I worked as a saleesman for toyota for 4 months before i got sick of the $900 a month they deigned to give me. As the person above said, we make about $100 per new car sold.

If you don't like the dealership experience, find another dealer! You live in America, you have CHOICE. I know you car buyers will drive 200 miles to save $50, so why won't you drive 25 miles to the nicer dealer?

Also, I just want to mention that Chevy is desperate to sell cars. They don't *care* that it's at a loss. Selling Toyotas is like selling food to the hungry. There's no NEED to sell at a loss.

All of the mainstrean dealerships have people working there that are money motivated and will tell you whatever you want to hear. Especially at the bigger ones. You can get a pleasant experience though- just buy a BMW, Lexus, or Infiniti. I know lots about cars and sold them for a little while at a nissan Dealership in Houston, so freinds of mine usually want me to go with them when they purchase. My experience with the brands listed above were a 360 difference from more affordable brands. Of course there are A** holes at luxury dealerships too- my mother test drove a C230 **************************** and after hesitantly agreeing to the test drive, the sales person immediatly talked about money and credit the whole time. It pissed my mother off- if she couldn't afford to buy the car, we wouldn't have been there. Plus, if he really wanted to Qualify her, he would have noticed that the Suv that she arrived in cost MORE new than the little Mercedes.
Anyway, car shopping sucks- just do your homework and don't blame the brand as a whole I guess. If she had liked the C a little more, we'd have just gone to a different dealership or gotten a new sales person.

Hey guys,
It's great to see car sales guys..sorry consultants on the blog. Like I said in my recent series on buying my own car I found only a few instances of the car salesman stereotype.

I think most of what the fellas said above is true, but the bad experiences are the ones that get retold more often I find.

Plus the whole setup of how long the process takes can be a problem to, although that often happens if someone hasn't had their credit checked, gotten financing elsewhere etc.

What I found really interesting was that it was a Toyota exec saying all this. And I must say most of the comments by everyone on here have been pretty civil. Thanks.

Dave T,
I don't think it is unusual that this was coming from a Toyota Exec. Sure toyota is selling like hot cakes now, but as the brand continues to grow, so will the dealerships. Someone at Toyota had the forsight to realize that if something doesn't change now, their dealerhips are going to be just like the average, giant Chevy dealership- not a good thing. I am not a fan of Toyota cars- but kudos to them, this will be a very good move if it works.

One of the funniest moments I've had at a Toyota dealorship was when I bought my Corolla. I wanted the "S" because well...let's face it...the other models without the plastic bodywork are booooooooooring. I had researched it an knew that virtually the only difference in these trim levels was said plastic work & Slightly wider tires on the alloy rims. I told the dealor that I wanted to test drive an S and he gave me the whole schpeel about how it was a more powerful engine and better suspention. (This was in 2004 before the XRS had been anounced). Anyways I called him on it and he completely argued with me. I bought that car...but not from him.

Buyers are liars. If consumers would tell the truth once in awile, salespeople would not be such jerks. If you were lied to ten times a day, you would have a bad attitude also. A consumer deals with one salesman in a day, but a salesman has to deal with 10 lying, cheating wanting something for nothing,identity stealing, bad credit, people who want to lower their payments every day. If you think I'm wrong, try it out for a day, apply anywhere, if your breating your hired. I guarantee after 24 hours you will quit and have a newfound respect for the lowly carsalesman.

John,
The behavior you describe among consumers should hardly come as a surprise. In just the last three days, I've perused advertisements in newspapers or mailings from Chicago area automobile dealers that incorporated these classic sales gimmicks:

"Up to $10,000 off MSRP"
"Only $99 a month..."
"No money down"
"You're pre-approved!"
"1 at this price... vehicle subject to prior sale"
"Everybody drives"
-On a scratch off ticket: "Everybody's a winner! Match your number with the number posted at the dealership .." (Typical prize was a worthless "$1000 shopping spree" on WSN).
"Factory authorized clearance event"
"No credit, bad credit? No problem!"
"Matricula Consular accepted"
"We speak Spanish, Polish, Ukrainian, etc, etc."

Is it any wonder why "lying, cheating wanting something for nothing, identity stealing, bad credit, people who want to lower their payments every day" visit car dealerships? Why would a true sales professional (whether in a managerial position or not) employ such chicanery?

By far the worst car buying experience I had was at Toyota. Every dealer I went to had a bad attitude and even the dealer I eventually bought a condemned Avalon from tried to change the deal at closing and even "lost" all records of my deposit. The salesman actually asked me to send him the Toyota survey that Toyota mails, for HIM to complete!

I completed the survey appropriately on Toyota's website and gave the salesperson the merit (or lack thereof) that he well deserved. He called me back a month later to complain about my comments!!!

The Toyota experience continued to haunt me as the cursed Avalon was riddled with problems. I traded it after months of suffering confrontations with the dealer's service department who were in a state of denial, and Toyota's Customer Relations who assured me that my call was important but they would rather I would just go away.

A Nissan dealer wrote me up an internet deal I asked for, but when I arrived to close the deal, they endorsed the sales offer with "Only valid if credit score is over 850." The top credit score is 850 so NOBODY could possibly qualify for the deal. I just walked out and secured the same deal at another Nissan dealer who was much more professional.

I worked for a Toyota and Nissan dealership as a salesperson 30 years ago and their tactics haven't changed much. Thankfully, I didn't last long in that business and moved on to bigger and better things.

Our recent Honda buying experience was excellent, though. Everyone at the Honda dealership from the sales person, through to management staff, finance and service staff were very courteous, professional and up front. This alone will make me buy Honda again and I would certainly return to the same dealership even if their offer were not the lowest.

If dealers were professional, knew their products and provided a genuine service to their prospective customers by assuming a consultative role, and actually helped a customer buy what they wanted without hard selling and resorting to circus tricks, they wouldn't have their well-deserved horse-trader reputation.

Car dealers need to come clean and show the customer the actually price paid for a car, and not some made-up invoice. Car buyers never know if they are getting a good deal because the dealer makes it impossible to find out. Yet the dealer holds all the cards when the customer completes a loan application and it clearly shows the dollar amount a customer qualifies for. I have had far too many bad experiences with Toyota dealers, and Honda, and.....After awhile my attitude about any and all car sales people is they are complete jerks. Plus they are not trained on anything more than just selling a car and not knowing the product they are selling. It's funny how the turn-around with employees is non-stop. That in itself tells me dealers hire anyone off the street.

I'd say the worst buying experiences I've had were at Suzuki dealerships. I was in the market for a SX4 and went to three seperate dealerships. At each dealership, the salesmen knew nothing about the car and were reading the stats directly from the window sticker. Heck, I can do that myself! In fact, I'd done enough research on the car that I even taught them some things about their car. This doesn't persuade me to purchase a car from them. A pet peeve of mine is that none of them allowed me to take the cars on the freeway during the test drive, and limited me to a small 'round the block loop that they take everyone on. So I still have no idea if the car can go 65mph.

Also at each dealership, the sales management was extremely pushy and one even held my drivers license and the keys to my current car hostage until I made a deal with him. I refused and decided to walk home, which was relatively close and left my car at the delaership. I ended up picking up an extra set at home and came back to get my car. My drivers license and other set of keys were mailed back to me. I ended up contacting the BBB in regard to this case.

Experiences like these do give poor salespeople the reputation they deserve. I've had some salesmen who have been knowledgable, polite, couteous, and upfront, and it's persuaded me to buy a car from them. Sad thing is I liked the SX4, but those dealerships don't deserve my money and the car was crossed off my shopping list.

Sales Gimmicks??????

"Up to $10,000 off MSRP"
Sounds right, it's probably a 45-50k vehicle though. All too many consumers think it's a 22,000 midsize sedan. Is this a gimmick by dealerships or wishfull thinking by the consumer?

"Only $99 a month..."
Anything can be $99 a month if you put enough money down. Or it was on some 5,000 dollar vehicle that you wouldn't pay 9/month for.

"No money down"
Unless it's a lease where 1st payment is required, the dealer will, or at least should, never require that a customer puts any money down. Depending on equity and credit the bank might though. Most dealers will however ask for a deposit to hold the vehicle in your name before you can take delivery. If you don't want to put that money down, fine. Just don't be surprised when your vehicle is sold to someone else.

"You're pre-approved!"
Do you really believe this when you read it in the paper? Did the dealer use ESP to retrieve your credit information and make sure that this newspaper made it to your doorstep? We are not that good.

"1 at this price... vehicle subject to prior sale"
Our advertisements are not breaking news. In other words, the newspaper may have had the ad layed out and ready to go for as long as 2-4 days. Dealers don't hold the vehicle until the add runs. Usually the 1 at this price is the introductory model and it doesn't last long even if it's not advertised

"Everybody drives"
Do I need to explain this one?

-On a scratch off ticket: "Everybody's a winner! Match your number with the number posted at the dealership .." (Typical prize was a worthless "$1000 shopping spree" on WSN).
C'mon now

"Factory authorized clearance event"
There are rebates available. Every vehicle on the lot is factory authorized for sale.

"No credit, bad credit? No problem!"
Would you rather we said: " No Credit, Bad Credit... how about you play hide and go f*** yourself.

"Matricula Consular accepted"
What?

"We speak Spanish, Polish, Ukrainian, etc, etc."
Money is Money no matter the language.

I base my vehicle purchase on the maintenance department's reputation.

MANY people will never own a new car. For those that will, Most(i think) realize that this purchase is second only to owning a home,
so I can emphathize with the customer and their apprehensions but buying the vehicle is only the first step..... I would agree that the service department for toyota comes into play as well.
I dred the service department, "cant duplicate customers problem" or... SORRY if its not totally broken, we cant get reimbursed from toyota for it,when it breaks for good let us know"
Do you know toyota has a service bulletin out for the tacoma tailgates. (very weak) almost all of the 05-early07 will buckle with over 250 lbs in the center. if you ask the dealer for the fix for the known problem.they must say,"sorry it has to bend before we can fix it THEN reinforce it so it wont bend. there is also a tsb out for weak rear leaf springs on all 05-06 tacomas, they are rated for 1000+lbs
but ride the bumpstops with 450lbs in the bed.
most dealerships are obviously trying to get out if doing the work for a known problem.
my dealer basically lied to me.
I know now that it depends on the dealership you go to , there are some honest ones out there, but i think most dont give a hoot
about you after the sale,
ON A GOOD NOTE, my wife and i had an excellent
experience with a honda dealer in DuBois PA
their service dept has gone above and beyond as far as im concerned, you mention a possible problem,and they get it fixed. period.
we will buy another vehicle there in the future, and a big part of it is the service.

KJ -
"Car dealers need to come clean and show the customer the actually price paid for a car, and not some made-up invoice. Car buyers never know if they are getting a good deal because the dealer makes it impossible to find out."

Like it or not, it's not the consumer's RIGHT to know ANYTHING about what their prospective purchase cost the seller- in ANY business. Have you ever tried to sell your house? Would it benefit you to let every prospective buyer know what you paid for the house? Heck no!

If a dealer has showed you an invoice, he's doing you a favor. Point Blank. And there's no such thing as a fake invoice. We don't have that much time on our hands, believe it or not.

Not to mention the fact that for every car shopper that feels the need to see an invoice and STILL wants to give you a hard time, there's another shopper looking at that same vehicle that will be EASY to deal with, won't try to nickel and dime you over $200 and will be happy as can be when they leave the lot in their new car.

All I have to say (and I said it before in a different post) that Toyota needs to FIX their website. I can't believe they still only show certain options rather than all the options available on a vehicle. I e-mailed Toyota about it and they told me that those options are what most people ask for. So what?! I'm not interested in those options and how freaking hard is it to show all the options? Are they suggesting I can't get a manual transmission in my area?

The only thing I can do is spend hours at the dealership to get some basic information on price and options. No wonder it is a TOYOTA exec who said people hate their dealerships--you don't make it easy on the buyer to do research!

I want to buy a Vibe/Matrix. The salesperson at the Toyota dealer showed me the cars as I requested and was nice and professional until he asked,"So what is going to take to sell you a car today?" My reply was that I was interested in a price as I am sold on the car and would be comparing his price with the Vibe's and I wanted to carefully consider my options. The salesmen's attitude turned COLD and while he did give me a very competitive price the way I was treated was poor.

The Pontiac dealer was just the opposite: no pressure and polite. They took the time to give me an on the road price and seemed to understand that they were better off letting me have the time to consider the transaction.

BTW--Someone representing the Toyota dealer calledfor a satisfaction survey, I gave the salesman a 1 (out of 10).

My wife and I went to a Toyota dealership to buy a Prius, and asked them for a better price than MSRP. They offered a price that was more than we were willing to pay, so we left.

The salesman called us about a week later and left a message on our phone machine that said, "We can get to within $100 of invoice, not that fleet price, maybe, so give me a call or come in and let's get you in a car." My wife called me to say that he'd called and we should go back and buy the car. Well, long story short, we went and he'd lied to get us back into the showroom (another 150 mile roundtrip) where the "better" price (near invoice) was the price they had previously offered(fleet price)... and more, because the car we wanted was at another dealership and it had "extras" that would be another $500. We got "ping-ponged" back and forth from the salesperson and the "Sales Manager" until we were tired and grumpy. We await the arrival of a car from another dealership and if it doesn't work out, I will be very happy to go back to Honda!

The bottom line was that we were "suckered" back into the showroom (for 2 and a half hours) to buy a car for more than we had turned down before! That will show us!

MABEY IF CAR SALESPEOPLE MADE MORE THAT A 100 DOLLARS ON A NEW CAR THEY WOULD CAR MORE. I HAVE BEEN SELLING CARS FOR 8 YEARS AND COULD CARE LESS IF I SELL ANY NEW CARS

WHEN PEOPLE WANT TO WORK AT DEALERSHIPS, THEY HAVE TO DRESS LIKE LAWYERS AND THEY GET A WHOOPING :100: DOLLARS A WEEK, PLUS WHATEVER SALES THEY CAN GET AND THATS USUALLY 100 A CAR. SOMEONE HAS TO STEPUP TO THESE DEALERSHIPS AND GET SALESPEOPLE AT LEAST A 400 DOLLARS A WEEK PLUS SALES. THE BASTARD DEALERSHIPS ARE ROBBING YOUNG PEOPLE WITH SUGGESTING THEY CAN MAKE 50,000 TO 1000,000 A YEAR. GEE I WONDER WHY PEOPLE DONT GET TREATED THE RIGHT WAY AT DEALERS.