Great Car Faceoff: Day 2 Update

The votes are in, all of them, and the Passenger Car bracket is closed and the SUV/Minivan bracket is live. Make sure you vote on today’s eight new matchups.

As for yesterday’s “controversial” results, we’ll just say that only the Crown Victoria really upset the field, with both high seeds — best-sellers — and fan favorites making it through to the next round.

Update: Voting has been changed to one vote per user. We are listening to, and appreciate, our readers' feedback.

Many people asked us to ban the Crown Vic fans from voting and not allow their votes to count, but to be honest, if you’re going to spend that much time sitting at your computer voting, then you’re truly a devoted car nut. In that case, we’re not going to penalize you. However, you don’t get off scot-free, either. Below we’ve listed some of our favorite comments from the Crown Vic message board, from people we’re guessing are responsible for the huge number of votes. Hey, if you’re embarrassed, you shouldn’t have tied your horse to the Crown Vic.

Comments

The only thing I am embarrassed about is what a mockery this contest has turned Cars.com into. In the past several weeks I recommended this website to two of my peers who are in the car buying cycle. As one of them said in an email this morning, "...it's a good website if you don't take purchasing an automobile as a serious purchase. ...some one has to serve the tweener community..."

For credibility sake I recommended he look at Edmunds.com.

I don't agree with all of the first post but Mike does have a valid point. In my mind this "contest" has undermined the professionalism that I associated with Cars.com.

I don't really "get" that Paul. You realize that it has no impact whatsoever on our car reviewing process?
On all the research tools we have available?
It doesn't get in the way of anything for the user in any way if they just want to research as always.

You could totally ignore it and have the same day as always. Or go vote for your favorites, click vote and go on with your life.

If you have suggestions on features you'd like to see instead our mailbox and comments are always open.

Dave I agree with you as people are taking the contest too literally however you do sound snide by saying 'click and go on with your life'.

Mike, Paul, and everyone who feels like they do: I appreciate your support for Cars.com's credibility. I just have to argue that this poll is a lark, a chance for the truly devoted to express their opinions about the cars (and the carmakers) that they love. It's completely unscientific, and only reflects the will of the crowds. Thanks for following, and I think you'll see that the rest of the site will continue to reach the high bar that you've set for us.
Patrick Olsen
Managing Editor
Cars.com

Victor,
Sorry I came off that way. Not intended. All these comments are just a tad overwhelming.

I'm curious as to why the Evo MR is missing. Now thats a true sports car, not the tC. Personally I think the Mini has more sportyness than the tC. Just my input.

Undermines professionalism? Seriously do people have their head up their butt or something? Its like saying a big wing on a Honda undermines the professionalism of a civic. This poll was for fun and entertainment. Some people need to stop shopping for a car and start shopping for a sense of humor.

I think it's all in good fun.

Cars.com, I give you megga kudos for rolling with all of this (no punn intended). This whole "contraversy" with the Crown Vic taking down the #1 seed is just more reason for me to stay tuned! I had read somewhere else on this site that the Crown Vic was described as having a "cult following", and I think this poll shows just how much those guys love that car! More power to 'em! I'd like to see what a Camery forum would have to say about all of this, lol.

Overwhelming indeed. As I was finishing my comments in Day 1's talk page, one of my friends (who does own a Crown Vic, handed to him from his grandfather), saw the number of votes in the Crown Vic versus Camry face-off, did some math to figure that the Crown Vic received around 4000 votes and laughed. His own words:
"Dude, what the hell kind of website is suggesting the Crown Vic over a Camry?"

I quickly informed him this was a poll, of people who could vote more than once, which earned a second laugh from him:
"Where did you find this b*llsh*t website?"

I told him it was a just a google search and clicked back to Yahoo!.

To Mr. Olsen: the Crown Vic versus Camry poll, for all we know, had nothing to do with the masses, with that many votes (so many that several of the other polls need to be combined to just get the 8000 number we had), it was a battle of who-could-write-a-program-in-windows-to-
make-a-mouse-cursor-do-all-the-nessecary-
motions-to-vote-for-the-Vic-100-times-an-hour.

Just goes to show you that there are a lot of senior citizens and police men with free time on their hands.

And that comment goes to show how ignorant most people are regarding Crown Vic owners.

Actually, Kevin, as someone who works in close proximity to a Ford dealership, and as someone who can find research on what audiences cars are selling with, SecretSquirrel's comment is actually pretty on mark. Few Yuppies or Urban Trendsetters or such buy a CV. In fact, it is mainly old people. And government agencies.

Dave T.: The voting is not fixed. I just tried my hand at it. I voted for the Explorer 3 times and each time the page reloaded, i could vote again and the vote counted. What you need to do is have cookies to track who has voted or require ISP signing.

scryer 360. Put up or shut up and find me the data that reflects all crown victoria sales both new and used lets see it! "Trend-setters" more like the Pied Piper leading a pack of rats to the sea. Just because Janet Jackson get Coffee enimas and she is a trendsetter will you.

I think the fact that Crown Victoria has a forum large enough to take down a Camry is plenty of proof that Crown Vic sells well. Where are all the Camry fans to put in their votes? They are no where to be found. In fact, the only Camry forum that I could find barely has any posts.

There is data that shows Crown Victoria having 85% of the police car market. If Crown Vic wasn't profitable, do you really think Ford would still sell it?

For those who must live and die by "stats", the Crown Vic may not set records for retail sales versus fleet, but it's sister cars the Mercury Grand Marquis and Lincoln Town Car boast some of the highest return customer stats out there and are the best selling Lincoln and Mercury vehicles....EVER.

The Crown Vic has not been visually updated in nearly a decade, if you walk into a Ford dealership to look at a Crown Vic, you won't find one in the showroom. In fact, odds are you will be told by the sales staff that they are no longer produced or are fleet only. Instead the sales staff will shove you into a Fusion, Five Hundred, anything but a Crown Vic. It's the unofficial "black sheep" of the Ford lineup.

The cars are the best kept secret in the market, for example a base model Grand Marquis can be had for under $20K with rebates, and you get rear wheel drive, the durability and safety of body-on-frame construction, all with the smoothness of a V8, and better MPG than you've been told about. While Chrysler designed the LX platform to appeal to American automobile lovers, the Crown Vic and siblings are the real deal, the last of their breed.

How much longer they'll be around is uncertain, nothing can remain profitable indefinitely without investment in updates or advertising, it'll be a sad day in the automotive world when they're gone.

I can't read these and not give another 2 cents. What's next? "My dad can beat up your dad."

This bracket includes cars other than the Crown Vic and Camry. No one can argue that the Crown Vic is not a good car or that the Camry is not a good car. I once got into a Crown Vic cab with 430,000 miles on it. I'm sure there are many Camrys with high mileage as well.

Every car serves a demographic and a need. We can attribute several distinctive needs that could be satisfied by a CV, and others by a Camry.

Regardless of your opinion, people will still visit this site. This bracket is for fun and does not at all reflect the quality of this website.

Tell me why cars.com had to pit the Crown Victoria versus the Camry? The last time I checked the 2 cars are not even in the same class. One is a mid size sedan, while the other is a full size sedan. Wouldn't it have made sense to have the Crown Vic face off against the Chrysler 300? Then again that makes too much sense. :S

we were trying to set things up like in the ncaa tournament, so the sales leader (camry) was seeded #1 against the least impressive (we thought anyway) car we could come up with. The Crown Vic at #16.

To Cars.com, thank you for letting us Crown Vic nuts have our fun and "victory" without getting bent out of shape like some have.

Well now that the voting has changed we'll see how well you get out the vote against the ultra popular Mini next round ;)

With all due respect to the staff of cars.com (I quite enjoy their site), I do believe they, and a number of others, have misinterpreted the people who drive Crown Vics. Yes it is true that they are mainly bought NEW by the elderly and police. But where do they go after that? Neither category buys used Vics. The people who buy them used are generally younger. The people who buy a Camry are looking for a nice practical car, but the people who buy a crown victoria are looking for a Crown Victoria!

It is naive to dismiss the car as a geezermobile/fleet car. The reality is that there are a whole lot of people out there who drive Crown Vics, and are truely enthusiastic about their car. Furthermore, many people not only drive them, but customize them. The car is fairly moddable, and there is a decent range of aftermarket parts that are made for, or compatible with, the Crown Vic. The forum supporting the Vic has just over 9000 registered members, and is quite a diverse group regarding ages and occupations.

So what if we dont buy them new? The voting option was the Crown Victoria, not the 2007 Crown Victoria. Does our input not count, simply because we buy our cars used?

We dont ask that you understand what it is we love about our cars, but we do ask for a little respect for the Crown Victoria.

It is hard to call MY Crown Victoria a "geezermobile" as it is BLACK AND WHITE.

and anyone who thinks that the Camry is NOT a geezermobile is crazy. I see just as many old people driving the Camry as I do the Crown Vic. The Camry is also one of the most boring cars to drive out there. Just read all of the reviews, it is certainly not a drivers car.

I would love to also see a pic of a Camry's odometer with 300,000 or 400,000 on the original tranny and engine. Does it exist?

the mercury is a good car and a loyal following. and the camry is really for people that don't know about cars and want something with a good reputation.

if you have issues with cars.com, you can start and end with the face off of a lesser silverado against the top tundra.

this competition is for fun. do you think the best "singers" on "american idol" are moving on? no.

Ok I see the point. But it would have been better to see best of each class come out. I personally would have like to see Camry versus the Accord and Fusion versus Impala and etc...

About the Mini, it barely beat the Focus in the first round. But we'll see how it goes. Since we all know the Camry fans are going to be looking for revenge.

Sorry Camry fans, better luck next time.

Are you guys sure it is ONE VOTE PER USER?

I just casted another 5 votes on day 2.

Anyway, what's the point, this is not a car comparison, but rather like fan boys(and fan girls) fight over who is better, while smart shoppers know which is the better one in the two.

Yep...the Crown Vic

I don't get why anyone would think that this whole voting thing undermine the professionalism of the Cars.com staff. This site is great fun for even if you're NOT buying a car. Anyways I really don't get the Crown Vic thing and was shocked that that was on the list.

MattD

I guess you are in the group that voted which vehicle to become COTY, no wonder.

The contest may be fun but to say that it does not come at the expense of Cars.com reputation is to be in denial. The key mistake was allowing people to vote more than once. Clearly this was not well thought out. It's just not the American way even if it's the Cars.com way. And YES I voted for the CV ten times the other day.

VUE over the CRV? Escape over the RAV4? I was able to vote multiple times!? What happened to quality control? What's the purpose if it's just about voting a gazillion times? This is a cheap trick used to drive internet traffic. And here I was told that Edmunds and Cars were the best car research websites.

I would add Autotrader.com to the best car websites as mentioned above. They have the best search capabilities.

We're checking into the voting issue. It is supposed to be limited to one vote per round. Hopefully, we'll get that cleared up soon.
Patrick Olsen

Check kbb.com for stats on cars, or any leading automobile mag, or Consumer Reports, or the companies own press conferences. MattD and crew, I do not have to make up for your own stupidity and laziness. On a side note, keep voting multiple times people, lets let anyone who was looking for a real view on a car come across this website and be mislead into whatever conspiracy theories there are!

As to cars.com, I will no longer be frequenting this website. For the first time, I am putting a website into the restricted domain on my security settings, and cars.com is that site. Far more professional bloggers and research can be had elsewhere.

What's with all the bellyaching?! This is a fun poll/competition that has no effect on the real world, nor does it show any scientific or important information, other than Crown Vic fans are nuts about their cars. Let everyone vote a million times, the Crown Vic will win, and the world will not change. If you want information about cars, look at other cars.com pages. If you think this is a serious reflection on cars.com, you really need to lighten up. The first round was freaking fun. All the bellyachers ruined it. If you want reliability, or other objective info, look it up. This is a subjective poll that means nothing. Let those of us who want to have some fun. Untwist your freaking panties.

By the way, the cars.com staff would likely rather spend time making this site have more important info, rather than trying to 'fix' this poll that a few of you are ticked about. By complaining, you're taking away valuable resources that could otherwise be used to make cars.com better and better. Good job, complainers.

I'm a huge Crown Vic fan (well, really a Grand Marquis/Town Car van), but anyone who gets upset over this entire contest needs to find some new distractions in life.

If the Camry won, do you think a bunch of people would post about never visiting the site again?

If the Crown Vic is for geezers, I should mention that everyone I know that owns a Camry are paranoid risk adverse people who never make a decision in life without affirmation from "a leading consumer magazine" - talking to them at a cocktail party is like watching paint dry.

It bothers me that this site would allow a bunch of Crown Vic fans to throw off the vote.

It brings back bad memories of 2000, when Bush stole the election.

WHO FREAKING CARES!!!! This DOES NOT MATTER!!!! Let us have some FUN!!! THIS POLL DOES NOT SERVE ANY REAL PURPOSE!!!!! IT IS FOR FUN!!!!!!!! LIGHTEN THE HELL UP!!!!

"Bush stole the election."

Tell that to the Supreme Court. Glad to see you got over it.

lprocter,
If they are trying to make this site to have more info, they will put someone that knows how to drive a car like the S2K when reviewing it.

I was surprised to see all the comments on this, and I'm actually kinda pleased that so many people are interested. Having been with the old c.c for a long time, I keep an eye on issues of credibility, so I'm interested to know exactly what the gripes are. Understand that I come to this from a point of abject ignorance. March madness has about as much appeal to me as paddle shifters ... both of which, come to think of it, look like brackets.

Anyway, to me a bracket is something that you hang an exhaust system on, so the boss wisely left me out of this endeavor. Coming at this as I am, from the sidelines (basketball analogy, for your pleasure), I can't really make out what the detractors specifically think reflects poorly on the site.

Is it that we're hosting a diversion? Is it some of the pairings? Is it the ability to vote more than once? Is it the framing of the Crown Vic as underdog (or, perhaps, dog)? Some of your comments above are impressively lucid and articulate, so I know you should be able to express yourselves. Come to think of it, where the hell are you guys when we put up more consequential posts and the comments amount to volleys of "Toyota sucks." "No, Ford sucks." "No, Toyota sucks."?

Joe,
Personally, I think it reflects poorly on cars.com that they would change this 'contest' partway through, only because a few people were upset over essentially nothing, and way overreacting. By bowing to pressure of outsiders over this, which really doesn't matter, I would wonder how strong the editors and reviewers convictions are when they review a car as being a poor choice. Cars.com gave way for this, when no financial pressure was put on them. What would the reviewers and editors change when GM or Toyota gets upset over a review, which could potentially involve millions of dollars?

I thought the contest was way more fun with unlimited voting, if only because it's more fun to play the game than watch it. By voting only once, you'll watch helplessly as your pick wins (or loses) and can't do a thing about it. By helping your pick pound the opposition into the ground, you feel as a team. Unlimited voting makes it fun.

lprocter,

About your latest comment, I cannot agree on any of it.
The voting is supposed to be limited to one vote per person(IP), or else there is no credit to the votes.
According to your comment, that means Bush can vote for himself with more than a million of his own votes. The congress can pass a tax bill with one person voting for it over and over again, while everyone voted against it. The Supreme Court case can be overturned even it is 1 vs 8 justices.
If THAT is what you want, you are not an eligible voter.

I think the comparison to any election in the governance domain is a little silly. It's vital to a democratic system that all people have an equal influence on the electoral process (then again, this blog is based in Chicago where they everyone, living or dead, can vote as often as they want :-). In contrast, American Idol allows multiple votes per person because people who vote more are more likely to buy the end product. This competition falls in the middle in the “has absolutely no direct effect on anyone's life” category.

I can understand the animosity towards the CV people; I understand (and, I suppose, agree with) the desire for everyone to have an equal voice. What I don't understand is how *some* people can be so upset over nothing. I might expect this from Mustang people, but how can fans of such a boring car possibly be this immature?

Crown Vic is a boring car? Obviously, you've never driven one. Those things haul ass, especially with a few mods.

SS,
I was referring to the Camry.

J,
As Lil'Tom said, this doesn't make any difference whatsoever to anyone's life, but at least it's fun (or I find it fun) when I can vote multiple times. I'm sure there are many more people who would agree with me.
As well, government elections are serious business that directly effect people's lives, and as such, no person should have any more influence than anyone else. But this voting isn't to determine who the leader of the free world will be, it's to determine what car might be considered the 'greatest,' whatever that means. But at the end of the day, the only ones losing any sleep over this thing are the people who are complaining that the CV fans 'sabotaged' the voting.
Bring back unlimited voting, and let each person decide if they want to vote only once, or a million times. Let each person decide whether they want to be a spectator or an influence. I, personally, do not want to be a spectator in what should be a fun, and until recently, exciting 'race.'

So that is not voting, but rather a child play.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting
Last time I look up the definition of voting is not equal to a child play like this.

I want to see if the result was the other way around and will the Crown Vic's fans feel okay.

Okay, but I didn't see on that wikipedia page where it said each individual was only allowed one vote. A vote is an expression of an opinion. There's no reason why one's opinion can't be expressed multiple times in such a 'contest' as this.
By the way, if the Crown Vic lost, there'd be less chatter about this, and it would be way, way less interesting.

J, if the Crown Vic lost, the Crown Vic fans surely wouldn't act like sissy girl and start bitching about it every change they get. The Camry lost, get over it.

Yes, if the CV lost in the first round the CV fans would have been disapointed. But most CV fans are used to hearing negative reviews of this time tested rock solid automobile. So a change was welcome.

you guys have got this vote rigged i notice it with alot of others u got something in the java changed to that the Crown vic loses cause u guys cant stand to lose. That Little mini pooper, i run faster then that car does in fact my 6'2" tall ass can probaly step on the piece of shit. man u guys are sore loser to go in a change the setting so your favorite rice burner wins.

Ouch...but true.

Lets just settle this like this. Crash the cars into each other at 45MPH. Then see who walks away. (It ain't going to be the Mini driver...although, they may become a "mini" driver)

To: Matthew Hendrick

Don't even mention the Supreme Court. They lost all credibility when they voted 5-4, pretty much along party lines for Bush. So, if it was a a unanimous vote, then ok, talk Supreme Court and no funny play, but it wasn't so you can't.